Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Kleyn has a decent game, that's great. Can we leave it at that? Unrelenting boring topic of discussion in this thread

Josh Lord pretty quiet so far for NZ

Can we swap our World Cup draw with Wales please

'Earn' is not the word for what we have to deal with over in France

who **** cares

I do 🤣

Munster fans care. Players who would rather to have Kleyn on our team instead of playing us care. But other people's opinions don't count I guess

You're mistaken aloof. This thread is only for guessing who Farrell might pick in future, and then immediately congratulating him for making the correct calls once the decisions are announced

Good point and something which was done for the last few weeks. He’s not available anymore. So by that token we can move on and discuss the players at our disposal.

Has anyone watched Ireland over the last couple of years, winning triple crowns, series in NZ, grand slams and thought "what this team really needs is a Jean Kleyn"?

Like, maybe he's a better option than Treadwell or McCarthy, I'm happy to concede that. But is he really so good to warrant the amount of outrage his omission has gotten? Ireland have been really f*cking good over the last two years, winning lots of games and playing a good brand of rugby. People seem to have forgotten this.

And if Kleyn ends up playing against us in the RWC, I'll be delighted, because it will mean that at least one of Etzebeth, De Jager, Mostert and Snyman is injured.

On the subject of second row selection, I can understand those questioning why Joe McCarthy was selected ahead of Kleyn for the Ireland squad. He isn't as good a player right now and has been injured quite a bit this season. But when you go down the depth chart, we're looking for 'finishers' (I hate that term) rather than starters. Our main pairing is Ryan and Beirne. Two world class locks as good as any around. If either is injured then Henderson comes straight in.

McCarthy is a physical freak and I've seen him mow through Kleyn on multiple occasions in inter pros. He has that explosive athleticism the former lacks. I also think he's an all round player who is surprisingly excellent at breakdown turnovers for a man of his bulk and possesses great handling ability. He can be ill disciplined and give away silly penalties, but he's only 22. He'll improve on that with more experience.

I think we're betting on McCarthy's ability to make a greater impact as a 20 minute sub rather than a starter. A lot of the above also applies to Treadwell. That's where Kleyn misses out, I think. He's not at the same level as Ryan or Beirne and he's not seen as a finisher.

McCarthy is class, I think he'll show his quality if he gets a chance. Leinster really messed up not picking him instead of Jenkins for the final.

I can understand where Lancaster and Cullen where coming from though. McCarthy was only back from a three month injury and had barely played. Jenkins is a more experienced player and had returned to full fitness six weeks earlier. The latter was pretty poor in the final, but it was the correct decision at the time.

I do think that Nienaber will look at McCarthy and want him in the starting 15 though. He's an athletic freak similar to Baird.

I’d say the fact that he is 29 and our lock depth is weak enough that guys like mccarthy or treadwell are even in the squad at all, makes it an obvious tactical error long term.

We could easily have another coach after Farrell who would like to have an international level tight head lock at his disposal.

South Africa, probably the most loaded country in the world talent wise dipping back into ireland for a lock at all in any squad is a decent enough indicator that it was probably an evaluation mistake in its own right.

It will take a lot more than one grand slam and a tour win against NZ to convince me that we are as deep as south africa and we can afford to let guys like that go. South Africa with the right coaching and time together could put out three or four fully competitive international teams, especially if they could get back all their guys who play for other countries. The idea of them coming back for a guy we don’t pick is insane. It shouldn’t happen.