Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816607#Comment_120816607

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

It seems that most posters here don't really see it as a mess.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816598#Comment_120816598

You're all over the place. Kleyn didn't break any rules. At all.

He didn't do anything immoral, he was given the opportunity to play for Ireland when he qualified as a project player, that we brought in because he didn't have a prospect of making the SA national team, and he filled a position we lacked cover for.

We played him a handful of times, dropped him (unfairly IMO). He kept playing for his club, putting in extremely good performances, to the point that he was applauded internationally and gained the notice of the SA Selectors. He became eligable for his native country last year and still publically committed to Ireland saying he wanted to play for his adopted country again. It was made perfectly clear that he was not in the picture for Ireland under the current management team, so when he was called up for SA, he accepted it and is now starting his first game.

Nothing in there is an 'arrestable' offense. He's not a cheat, he's not a mercinary. And the treatement of him by some of the media and the more toxic fans on the internet is shameful.

Hank the DJ

It's the questioning his integrity I find a bit offensive to be honest, and saying he should have just "played better" after having his best ever season for Munster.

It's like someone is trying to get a reaction.

Best to ignore it and be thankful we have enough quality 2nd rows that we can overlook Jean.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816981#Comment_120816981

Ive no issue at all with him taking the call up, the issue is taking the call up after he already played for Ireland. Straus and Stander didnt switch to SA or from SA, not the same situation. There is no issue going back to SA.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817750#Comment_120817750

Why do you have no issue with Fekitoa switching to Tonga? There's many people who have changed at this point.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817359#Comment_120817359

Those same people seem to see Irish caps as dispensable and not very valuable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817405#Comment_120817405

Did I say at any time that he broke the rules? No so dont mention that again.

Well since he has now made the SA squad he clearly always had the potential to, so maybe instead of taking the easy option at the time he should have said no to an Irish call up and toughed it out. Now that an SA call up is more achievable boom he's gone taking the easy option again.

So you are saying a player that has recently said that's his dream was to play for SA said only afew months ago said he wanted to play for Ireland. That should tell you what his word is worth. I mean good luck to him but he wont be getting my approval.

Nah I think its pretty fair, just hope in the end it was all worth it.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817779#Comment_120817779

Those same people seem to see Irish caps as dispensable and not very valuable.

In the same way as coaches do when they hand out a 30 sec token cap at the end of a game.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817779#Comment_120817779

Do you think JGP and James Lowe and Bundee Aki dreamed of playing for Ireland when they were growing up?

Did Kleyn ever say he used to dream of playing for Ireland when he was growing up?

Saying that he still wants to play for Ireland when he's eligible to play for ireland is not a contradiction to saying that he dreamed of playing for SA when he was a kid.

You're continuing to cast aspersions about his character. Implying that he is dishonest, or lazy, or takes the easy way out.

It's pathetic tbh

AdamD

Pretty sure James Lowe has made very very similar comments about growing up wanting to be an All Black, which again is perfectly reasonable.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817750#Comment_120817750

Strauss andStander weren't good enough for S.A. they were never getting called up. Kleyn has been called up. Why not take his chance. Even if he doesn't make the world cup squad, he's played for his country.

AbusesToilets

I hope Kleyn has a great game and we never have to spend weeks talking about him in the Ireland team chat ever again.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819181#Comment_120819181

Lol. He was very very good this past year. But, so was Ross Molony!

clsmooth

Why are we talking about Kleyn? He’s not good enough to be in our 23 at the moment.

Ryan, Beirne and Henderson (when fit) are all far superior players. Baird has shown he can do it at international level in the GS win over England where he was excellent. McCarthy, Ahern and Edogbo are much younger and have potential to be better players than him in the not too distant future. Threadwell (whilst not my cup of tea) has been dynamic for Ireland off the bench and more impressive in his international than Kleyn was when he had his opportunity.

Kleyn is a decent player but if he’s named as one of South Africa’s starting locks against us in the world, I suspect we’ll all be delighted on here.

You’d think he was at the physicality level of Skelton or Meafou the way some people go on about him. He’s played a lot of minutes for Munster this year which proves how durable he is, but would Munster fans really start him ahead of a fully fit Beirne and RG Snyman?

Good luck to him, but I suspect he’ll get a few caps for SA in the run up to the World Cup and unfortunately lose out on the final squad selection. Hopefully it’ll have been worth it for him when he is negotiating his next contract in Ireland or abroad.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819662#Comment_120819662

I agree with most of this (other than Kleyn being just a decent player.. i’d say he’s a really good player). However, munster did start him over Snyman in the URC final.

I’d also say as a capped springbok, he’s making more next contract either way.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819662#Comment_120819662

Why are we talking about Kleyn? He’s not good enough to be in our 23 at the moment.

I think Kleyn is getting a lot of mention because

1. The unusual set of circumstances arising from him being capped by 2 Tier 1 Nations and
2. Simply, he’s had a very, very good season.

And he may not be good enough for out 23 if everyone is fit. But imo he’s had a better season than both Henderson and Treadwell.

And we know injuries can happen.

You’d think he was at the physicality level of Skelton or Meafou the way some people go on about him

To be fair, I don’t think anyone’s been bigging him up to this degree.

ulsteru20s

Snyman is the only guy in ireland who is that level of physical freak. He’s less so than those guys obviously but very skilled.

Clegg

If we're talking about physicality, there's no lock in Ireland playing with as much of that as James Ryan.

Been so impressed with how destructive his rucking his become.

ulsteru20s

Size wise and skills wise, Ahern has a lot of the raw materials of Snyman. I mean the chances of reaching that are low but they have similarities. Then Edogbo has a lot of the traits of that big french style THL that plays at 130kg+.

I’d guess McCarthy is the most likely to be like Ryan.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820034#Comment_120820034

McCarthy and Edogbo are pretty similar

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820622#Comment_120820622

I think edogbo is going to end up quite a bit heavier than mccarthy and he’s not as explosive as mccarthy, at least right now. Edogbo took a pretty big jump in one year though so who knows. If he was a couple of weeks younger he would be on the u20 team .

Hank the DJ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820729#Comment_120820729

Munster are going to have some herd in a couple of years, Edogbo, Quinn and Gleeson are all very big men now at 19/20.

Dubinusa

Spring boks pummel the wallabies! Didn't see that score happening.

Pumas to win by a geehair v N.Z.

Akrasia

Jean Kleyn had an outstanding performance.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120822978#Comment_120822978

Has nothing to do with the Ireland team.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120822791#Comment_120822791

They are going to be a massive problem in the world cup.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120822996#Comment_120822996

Not anymore, I'm sorely aware of that

clsmooth

Has there been any more word about Osborne? Was mentioned on here that he possibly did his cruciate a few weeks ago.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120822978#Comment_120822978

Real shame we're losing him but delighted for him to get to play for his home country

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120822996#Comment_120822996

Are YOU not going to allow us to talk about players who previously played for Ireland anymore?

Must remember that.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120823255#Comment_120823255

This is the Ireland thread in the lead up to the World Cup. He will not be part of that. Must remember that.

I have no problem with YOU or anybody else discussing him but why not discuss him in the appropriate Munster thread or create a South African thread? What’s next up? A ROG vs Sexton debate?