Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

As such I don’t think it would be unreasonable to expect us to be talking about players who are in or around the current squad or eligible to play for us.

It’s also not unreasonable to talk about players who were available to Farrell prior to the game today.

Good point and something which was done for the last few weeks. He’s not available anymore. So by that token we can move on and discuss the players at our disposal.

You’re under no obligation to engage in the discussion. It seems like a perfectly reasonable topic for discussion to me tbh.

Has anyone watched Ireland over the last couple of years, winning triple crowns, series in NZ, grand slams and thought "what this team really needs is a Jean Kleyn"?

Like, maybe he's a better option than Treadwell or McCarthy, I'm happy to concede that. But is he really so good to warrant the amount of outrage his omission has gotten? Ireland have been really f*cking good over the last two years, winning lots of games and playing a good brand of rugby. People seem to have forgotten this.

And if Kleyn ends up playing against us in the RWC, I'll be delighted, because it will mean that at least one of Etzebeth, De Jager, Mostert and Snyman is injured.

On the subject of second row selection, I can understand those questioning why Joe McCarthy was selected ahead of Kleyn for the Ireland squad. He isn't as good a player right now and has been injured quite a bit this season. But when you go down the depth chart, we're looking for 'finishers' (I hate that term) rather than starters. Our main pairing is Ryan and Beirne. Two world class locks as good as any around. If either is injured then Henderson comes straight in.

McCarthy is a physical freak and I've seen him mow through Kleyn on multiple occasions in inter pros. He has that explosive athleticism the former lacks. I also think he's an all round player who is surprisingly excellent at breakdown turnovers for a man of his bulk and possesses great handling ability. He can be ill disciplined and give away silly penalties, but he's only 22. He'll improve on that with more experience.

I think we're betting on McCarthy's ability to make a greater impact as a 20 minute sub rather than a starter. A lot of the above also applies to Treadwell. That's where Kleyn misses out, I think. He's not at the same level as Ryan or Beirne and he's not seen as a finisher.

I can understand where Lancaster and Cullen where coming from though. McCarthy was only back from a three month injury and had barely played. Jenkins is a more experienced player and had returned to full fitness six weeks earlier. The latter was pretty poor in the final, but it was the correct decision at the time.

I do think that Nienaber will look at McCarthy and want him in the starting 15 though. He's an athletic freak similar to Baird.

Ok but it isn't Andy Farrell's job to worry about what the next Ireland coach might want. His job is to deliver results, and I think it's fair to say he's been doing a good job of that.

Two things here. First of all, nobody ever claimed we have better depth than SA. And secondly, Kleyn wasn't "let go", he just wasn't selected, same as many other players who didn't make the 42 man squad. Jack Carty, Jordan Larmour, James Hume etc. He then chose to switch allegiances back to the country of his birth.

See, this reeks of inferiority complex to me. Why exactly shouldn't it happen? Why does South Africa capping a player in a largely 2nd string team automatically mean he should have been in the Ireland squad? I'll once again remind people that Ireland are actually really f*cking good at the moment and are ranked above South Africa.

Yeah lets. If Ireland lose a game that we would clearly have won if we had Jean Kleyn, I'll admit it was a blunder to not select him.

And I never said we're the best team in the world, I said we're really good.

It's nothing like that at all, because the Irish soccer team are sh*te.

If Ireland underachieve at the world cup, it will not be because we didn't select Jean Kleyn.

If Ireland underachieve at the world cup, it will not be because we didn't select Jean Kleyn.

Of course it won't, but that's exactly how it will be painted if things don't go well

It's already being described as hubris and the RWC is still months away.