Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

bartkingcole · 09-07-2023 12:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120824955#Comment_120824955

Completely agree. Kleyn definitely did enough this season to put himself in the mix. Especially as both Ryan and Henderson do not have great injury profiles.

sydthebeat · 09-07-2023 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120824955#Comment_120824955

Which is all fine and well, but you also have to accept that Andy Farrell and Paul o Connell deemed him surplus to requirements and are sticking with the players who have brought us a grand slam and longevity as the number one team in the world.

If we do not win the RWC it will not be because we don't have Jean Kleyn in the team, as you are alluding to above

Akrasia · 09-07-2023 1:00pm

I love your cairvoyant powers.

It's especially Impressive given your use of vague conditions and double negatives.

What you've basically said is James Ryan and Tadgh Beirne are replaceable with any other 2nd rows and it makes no difference to our chance of winning

You certainly can't mean that Joe McCarthy or Treadwell or Baird are already playing at the same level as Jean Kleyn is and are good enough to step in and hold the line in a RWC knockout game.

Whatever about potential, Kleyn today is a much better player than McCarthy and Treadwell are today, and is much bigger and more powerful than Baird is.

Dubinusa · 09-07-2023 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825179#Comment_120825179

There's truth in what you say. Kleyn had a better season than Treadwell. McCarthy was injured! So there can't be a comparison and besides, he's very highly rated. Baird has improved and is a better athlete.

Kleyn is a good player. I rate him better than Orie, who was very good yesterday. Whatever Kleyn brings, Farrell prefers other options.

Dubinusa · 09-07-2023 1:38pm

On another topic, Oz have a crap front row! Utter shyte. Kitchoff had a field day. Slipper has not ever stood out for me either.

VanStadon looks a tidy player. The boks will be a difficult match for us. Libbock isn't a high quality out half, imo. A great athlete but he's not a typical out half.

AbusesToilets · 09-07-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825303#Comment_120825303

I thought Aus did decently in defending the maul against SA. I think Ireland needs to stay aggressive at putting up jumpers to contest on throws.

AdamD · 09-07-2023 1:57pm

The South African line out was a little dodgy and Marx usually isn't an improvement in that regard

clsmooth · 09-07-2023 2:04pm

Talking of second rows, I think Niall Murray is unlucky not to have worked his way into the training squad. Best performing Irish second row across the URC this season backed up by making the URC team of the season (only Irish 2nd row to get in). Only 23 years old so plenty of time to come into his prime.

With McCarthy, Baird, Edogbo and Ahern not to mention some of the U20s coming through, the future looks bright there. Who knows; maybe Dillane will be back in the next few years too.

clsmooth · 09-07-2023 2:09pm

A big part of our World Cup chances will depend on the fitness of Furlong and Henderson. Will be interesting to see if the time off and a fresh pre season can get them back to full fitness.

Both have been bit part players for the last year or so which has been great as we’ve built depth with Finlay Bealham and the likes of Baird, Treadwell and McCarthy getting minutes and going well in a winning team. You’d still like the other two lads available though facing up against the likes of SA.

AbusesToilets · 09-07-2023 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825411#Comment_120825411

Certainly would have Bealham as the starter, based off of this season. Hopefully Furlong can get healthy and fit again, he's been well off of his previous best. I'm not sure Henderson makes the 23 at the moment. I'd probably have Baird ahead of him on the bench.

clsmooth · 09-07-2023 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825430#Comment_120825430

Agreed, think he should start and hope Farrell is of the same thinking unless Furlong is ripping it up in early games or Bealham hasn’t gotten back to his 6N form. Also a nice psychological weapon and to bring off the bench.

Buer · 09-07-2023 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825303#Comment_120825303

Wouldn't blame Slipper. He's a good player and has long been one of their reliables.

It was Ala'alatoa that Kitshoff minced.

Also, that Boks front row is world class. Malherbe is a scrummaging machine. Doesn't know what to do with a ball but can scrum all day. A modern Julian White.

realhorrorshow · 09-07-2023 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825397#Comment_120825397

I think Darragh Murray has a bright future too.

Bogwoppit · 09-07-2023 3:50pm

Hogg has just announced his immediate retirement, now who can we rely on to hand us the match this time round?

Akrasia · 09-07-2023 3:59pm

Kinghorn should move to 15, bringing Ben Healy into the reserve 10 position behind Russell

phog · 09-07-2023 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825117#Comment_120825117

I did no such thing.

bartkingcole · 09-07-2023 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825874#Comment_120825874

Was he injured?

Podge_irl · 10-07-2023 9:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120824738#Comment_120824738

I would argue it is the "especially this season" that was his problem. Farrell simply didn't make many adjustments to his squad this year, so it's likely just a case of being too late.

Ireland are also not South Africa and do not play the game the same way. It's perfectly possible for someone to be better suited to one playstyle over the other.

Former Former Former · 10-07-2023 10:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825411#Comment_120825411

At least Henderson has been properly injured, I don't think he made it to double figures of games last season. You'd hope that if he's back fit, he'll be back performing.

Furlong is more worrying, in that he's been repeatedly passed fit to play but has never really looked 100%, going back two seasons now. Hopefully a proper rest and proper pre-season will do the trick but as of now, you'd have to say Bealham is the safer bet.

aloooof · 10-07-2023 11:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828680#Comment_120828680

I agree, I said as much at the outset that he suits SA’s style more than ours, but I still think he did enough this season to deserve a look.

phog · 10-07-2023 11:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829009#Comment_120829009

He slotted in the South African "system" in a matter of days/weeks.

Interested Observer · 10-07-2023 11:47am

We don't know what discussions were had with Kleyn/his agent/Irish management/SA management/whatever over the past seasons. He might have been targetting a return to the SA squad the whole time, what with him being from SA and all. He said it himself he didn't grow up wanting to be POC.

Akrasia · 10-07-2023 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829220#Comment_120829220

That is the opposite of what Kleyn said as early as this spring before the 6 nations, He said he would be delighted to be selected for the Irish team. He also said he was really happy in Ireland and had no plans to leave or change anything. These both indicate that he had no contact or discussions with South africa regarding getting called up to their squad at that time.

https://www.the42.ie/jean-kleyn-munster-5974159-Jan2023/

I don't consider Kleyn to be a liar, so I will discount your theory as completely unfounded and without any basis what so ever.

The same line of character attack that was alluded to in Murray's interview, horrible accusations and vitriol as Gordon D'arcy's assertion that Kleyn took payment from SA to not be selected for Ireland. Utterly baseless and the exact opposite of what all of the available evidence points to.

phog · 10-07-2023 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829700#Comment_120829700

Darcy has lost it as a pundit/journalist. Two of my favourite players Luke Fitz and Darcy just seem to go all tabloid when it comes to commenting on certain Players, I've lost respect for them as pundit/commentators.

Dubinusa · 10-07-2023 1:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828764#Comment_120828764

Furlong has had long term injuries such as the calf injury. I had a slight calf tear a couple of years ago and I still haven't fully recovered. It's an injury that doesn't go away and can reappear out of nowhere.

Former Former Former · 10-07-2023 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829700#Comment_120829700

Gordon D'arcy's assertion that Kleyn took payment from SA to not be selected for Ireland

He absolutely didn't say that, at all

Edit: for clarity, he said Kleyn's contract with IRFU (and salary) would have been drawn up on the basis of him being an Ireland player and available for selection for Ireland, which is no longer the case, and now he'll be getting paid by South Africa at the same time.