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Barbarity of drug pushers

245

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭BagofWeed


    Shouldn't be getting drugs on tick, the fool.

    It's a high risk but quick earning business with no end of willing customers so it attract lads who want fast or easy money and in an illegal market filled with shady characters who need to watch their backs for authorities those who get involved need to be tough and need to be willing to use violence so there we go an ideal industry for any violent hyperactive traveller who knows nothing else but dysfunction.

    In my experience most regional town area dealers/suppliers will be informers for at least one of their area drug unit detectives, its a win win, dealer gets to do his thing and detective gets to bust lower rung dealers and users so he gets his promotions. Happy days ! Except for the community plagued with burglaries and robberies as the heroin addict needs money for his fix.



  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭johannmall


    Tick is the pushers modus operande , so you'll never get out from under them , a miserable life of servitude, parasites, we need sentences that deter even for the teens they use !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,961 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    And who pays for the extra lab infrastructure ? the staffing of it :)

    Who pays for all of the extra infrastructure and staffing of new departments in the HPRA ?

    where do we get all the extra services, from GPs, A&E coverage, inpatient coverage to deal with an upsurge in addiction ?

    waiting lists right now are chronic and won’t be eased by many issues be faced by the country, population surging and this on top ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,658 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    The whole treated with fentanal/LSD/skunk myth has propagated since the 80s. Weed is a cheap drug. At which point in the supply chain do you think somebody is going to fork money in order to have it laced with [insert hard drug]. That would essential wipe out any profit somebody had on the weed, plus remove their supply of fentanal to sell.

    Slippery slope, gateways. LMFAO.

    That sort of logic is pretty flakey. I guarantee if weed was removed there would be no fewer people on harder drugs. Tobacco is a much a gateway drug.

    Or make it's the tea and coffee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,721 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Key lesson is don't owe money to drug dealers - especially if you've just made mammy and daddy pay off a 4 grand debt that had already been ran up. The person concerned should take responsibility - particularly since they seem to have had a bit of a history of not paying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭johannmall


    Well the amount of kids presenting with mental health issues from potent new strains of weed is fact , weed from the 80's and 90's wouldn't have anywhere near the thc levels of today's stuff , you can dismiss my point about it being a gateway but I guarantee you if you took a poll here on boards those who've tried class A will tell you they tried weed first !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,721 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    and probably had a drink of wine as well before their 18th. .... does that make wine a gateway drug too? how about coffee? kids could be drinking that way before either wine or taking drugs - could coffee be a gateway drug?



  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭johannmall


    Well I can tell I've upset the stoners, I'm waiting for the "nobody ended up in A&E from smoking a joint" , when the facts show that long term cannibas use has seriously detrimental effects on brain development, and flippant remarks about coffee are just that ! Would you advocate smoking weed to your kids ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,138 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    The same people who pay for the kinahins lavish lifestyle in Dubai. You're saying it as if there's no profit being made in the illegal drug industry which couldn't be diverted to making it illegal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,658 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Can you provide some evidence that weed is causing mental health issues in kids. Seeing as its a fact. There's also more people identifying mental health issues that don't take drugs. In general mental heath identification and treatment has improved.

    People having tried weed first doesn't mean weed led to class A drugs. People probably tried a cigarette before either. Are cigarette a gateway to class A? The cigarette industry has done far more harm to people than potent new strains of weed - and being more potent just means a lower dose to get high. It doesn't create some new extra plane of highness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭johannmall


    Take a look a irish psychiatry. ie , they call it "the gravest threat" to irish kids mental health! I'm not that tech literate so I can't import the article , Google irish kids cannabis psychosis and up it comes , and I'll stand by my comments on gateway!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,470 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Still have the problem of dealers and debts. Probably more so.

    Hate to think what would happen if there was little or no consequence given the current level of use and the queues outside Head Shops when they were open. Strikes me as irresponsible on the part of the Government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Tavrin Callas



    Of course. Absolutely. I don't think for a minute that the solution is to just not buy them as that is totally unrealistic. I was merely pointing out that those that do buy them are contributing to the sort of behaviour described in the OP.

    The solution I propose is to fully legalise them. That is a far better way to do away with the criminals and thugs who supply. But in the meantime, just don't whinge about their behaviour because if you are a customer you are part of the problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Tavrin Callas


    Another good reason to legalise them. At least you'll know what you're buying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,727 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Legalize the plants, might get the smackheads interested in horticulture and off the streets.

    🙈🙉🙊



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,470 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Legalising doesn't mean supplying them over the counter. It just means prosecution for possession is lenient. Dealers will remain.

    You can't even buy two boxes of Paracetamol in the chemist, nevermind coke.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Does legalizing mean something similar to head shops so instead of buying heroin, cocaine, ecstasy on the street you buy it from a dealer in a shop?, or how else would it work?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,470 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Means you don't get prosecuted for personal use. Nobody is going to legalise the sale of hard drugs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭cms88



    The gaurds are more than likely busy checking if someone doesn't have tax on their car



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    So the dealers remain as the source?, and people can still build up drug debts?. I don't see what legalizing actually solves



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,470 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Saves court and police time I suppose and you don't get a criminal record.

    I'm sure the dealers would love it though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    That's decriminalisation

    Legalising something means making it legal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Decriminalizing and legalising are different.

    Decriminalizing takes away police wasting time on petty users, and allows them to concentrate on dealers. The drug is still illegal, but instead of users going to jail, they would work with health workers to try and get them off the drug, and importantly, carry no criminal record so their future isn’t f*cked.

    Legalizing would be like alcohol. There would be controls in place, like over 21’s, not available until a certain time, taxed etc. The police would still go after unlicensed dealers and monitor the controls put in place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Tavrin Callas


    You come in with some pretty sweeping statements to this thread. "Nobody is going to legalise the sale of hard drugs", "Legalising ... just means prosecution for possession is lenient". The law can be what it wants to be, when it is drafted and approved.

    And you seem to be confusing legalisation with decrimilsation. "Legalisation ... just means prosecution for possession is lenient" sound more like the result of decrimilisation, not legalisation. Full legalisation (and regulation and taxation), could be brought in, where drugs are manfactured to a standard, sold to certain people (like alcohol and cigarettes, age limits, and warnings should probably be included), and the tax on it is collected and used.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,470 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Mad if you think hard drugs are going to be sold over the counter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    To be fair, they said it “could” be legalised and sold over the counter, which indeed it “could”. The government have got the power to do that.

    The government won’t of course, for many reasons, but the poster is not saying it “will” be, but it “could be” and there is an important difference there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    a lot of the suicides in county Limerick are related to drug debts , young people who can’t pay think it’s easier kill themselves than face the wrath of the traveller gangs . It’s all brushed under the carpet as mental health issues but it all comes back to the control drug gangs have on communities . One family who buried their daughter after a suicide had a traveller gang outside their door two days after the funeral saying they were now expected to pay the debt or else they’d dig their daughters body up .

    local politicians ignore the lawlessness , they only give out lotto grants once a year and ignore their constituents plight .



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    It seems to me that there are two main problems with drug use.


    1) The impact on the individual user.

    2) The impact on society. By this I mean the impact on those not involved, crime driven by the need to feed addiction, criminal activities related to the dealing side of the industry.

    Perhaps, like the American's failed war on alcohol in the early part of the last century, its time to accept defeat and legalise the whole lot.

    Yes, we would still have the problems with addiction ( like we do withalcoholism) but, by taking the criminals out of the loop, we would free up a huge chunk of police time, generate state revenue through taxation of the product, reduce violence - certainly in that subset which is directly related to the dealers, and enable proper management of the impact on society.

    Not perfect, not ideal, nor even desireable, but everything else has failed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    I've seen smoking lead directly lead to psychosis more than once, it is a major issue with legalising it (I support legalising all drugs). Not sure what the solution is.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭WheelieKing


    You should be able to buy drugs from government run premises akin to pharmacies. The war on drugs can't be won and it's fruitless fighting it. Estimations from America say they have spent over 3 trillion dollars in the last decade alone and the problem is worse than ever and they keep repeating the same mistakes over and over like complete gobsh ites.

    Iv'e zero time for drugs myself and have distanced myself from friends who partake in using of drugs over the last few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Cigarettes are legal but theres still a lot of cigarettes being sold by criminals. Even if the drugs were sold in shops where would the product be sourced?, you'd still be dealing with the criminals who aren't going to be paying VAT or tax undercutting legal dealers.Buyers will still be turning to crime to fund their addiction.And most importantly do we really want to increase the number of addicts in society?. I work in Dublin 8 and come accross enough zombies as it is now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    The product would be sourced from licensed producers. It’s one reason after Canada legalised weed it wasn’t available the day after. All that legal infrastructure has to be set up.

    You’ll be dealing with businesses that pay VAT, hire workers that pay tax etc, etc.

    Why would buyers turn to crime? What evidence do you have of this?

    Regards your last point, if drugs are decriminalised, it’s EASIER to get help to get off them as the stigma of being arrested or being treated like a criminal will be gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Where would we source heroin and coke?

    Why would buyers turn to crime?, for the same reason they do now, to fund their habit. I doubt there are many heroin addicts holding down jobs.

    Bit like this case, she'll still need to steal to pay for her habit.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,945 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Incoming President-elect of the Royal College of Psychiatrists has called for a public information campaign to be launched about the consequences to British teenagers of regularly smoking cannabis.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,945 ✭✭✭growleaves


    College of Pyschiatrists in Ireland are also warning of the dangers to young people:

    ‘We cannot overstate the danger that this increasingly potent drug poses to young people’s mental health’



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Great. Now ask yourself, do dealers ask for ID? Where licensed premises will have to ask for Id, and hopefully it’s over 21’s as the brain is still forming in teenage brains and they should absolutely not be taking cannabis or any other drugs for that reason (including heavy spirits)

    Making it harder for youngsters to get it is one of the aims of the decriminalisation effort.

    Also, being able to list the different strengths is important. At the moment, most of the weed is too strong for regular smokers. It would be like having only whiskey available. Can you imagine how many people would turn into headcases if they only had whiskey to drink? No beers, wines etc.

    Decriminalising and legalising allows for proper labelling to happen. It was one of my favourite things about going to Amsterdam, perusing the menu 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,682 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    No, this is the ban drugs rock on which people swear it's a positive thing for society because drugs=bad-mmmkay?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    We cannot overstate the danger that this increasingly potent drug poses to young people’s mental health’

    This is the really important bit and why it needs to be legalised. There’s no reason for it to be that strong and getting stronger, except that it makes more profit for scumbag dealers.

    Higher potency = less amounts needed to get high, but sold at the same price as larger quantity, weaker strains that were around in the past. It means there’s less product needed to be shipped in as well, so it’s slightly less risky.

    Making it legal would introduce much, much weaker strains into society.



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Tavrin Callas


    Of course drug use can be a hazard to health. This is no reason for it to remain illegal though and why adults should be allowed to make up their own minds. Lots of things can be hazardous to health, from horse riding, to driving a car, to alcohol, to chocolate, to gambling, to mountain biking. None of those things are illegal, and nor should they be. Nor should drugs be made illegal on the argument of safety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,682 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    So ban everything - including alcohol, tobacco and caffeine (because the legal ones are dangeorous to young people too!)...?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,470 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    The Government has a duty of care to its citizens. That's why we have laws, particularly around addictive drugs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Tavrin Callas


    Way to miss the post of my post!! Yes, the Government has a duty of care to its citizens. It also has to allow it certain freedoms too, otherwise anything and everything that might cause damage to a citizen will be banned.

    People seem to have a knee-jerk reaction though when it comes to drugs, because, "drug are bad, mkay??" that doesn't happen with other things that can also cause health or injury problems. Legalisation, with the proper measures would actually provide a better duty of care to citizens than allowing them to remain legal, have the drug thugs rule, and people not actually knowing what they might be smoking or taking in the product they buy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,470 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    The easy availability of opioids has done wonders for America. No earthly way in heaven heavy duty drugs will ever be legalised,nor should they.



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  • Heroin can kill, but has an antidote. Ecstasy and cocaine can be lethal in any quantities as they can cause very serious heart rhythm disturbances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Tavrin Callas


    The reason I included horse riding in my list of hazardous activities, was something I once read, but I'd forgotten where. I did a search and it would have been from Ben Goldacre's Bad Science book where he spoke about David Nutt's comments about horse riding being more dangerous than ecstasy as proved by evidence based research. But, because horse riding feels more wholesome than ecstasy, then people will want to ban one and promote the other, ignoring actual evidence. More here:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    I have spent the last 25 years working in a job where I see crime daily.

    I cannot quantify it properly, but purely from my observations I'm gonna guess between 75-80% of crime in this country is because of drugs. And I could see if they were legalised how we could have a massive drop in crimes.

    Everything from assaults, burglaries, shoplifting, pickpockets, robberies up to murders, all as a result of illegal drugs. Take the power away from criminals and put the money spent now in the courts, prisons and on gardai to use in education, and counseling for those that need it.

    Although in order for it to work properly, we would probably need worldwide consensus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭jface187


    You might stab the guy and go to jail. Also they would come back for you and your wife and kill the pair of you and your son for killing one of them. Unless your John Wick going after a drug cartel by yourself not a good idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,856 ✭✭✭Allinall




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