Barbarity of drug pushers

Tavrin Callas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120693828#Comment_120693828

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694064#Comment_120694064

Of course drug use can be a hazard to health. This is no reason for it to remain illegal though and why adults should be allowed to make up their own minds. Lots of things can be hazardous to health, from horse riding, to driving a car, to alcohol, to chocolate, to gambling, to mountain biking. None of those things are illegal, and nor should they be. Nor should drugs be made illegal on the argument of safety.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694064#Comment_120694064

So ban everything - including alcohol, tobacco and caffeine (because the legal ones are dangeorous to young people too!)...?

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694269#Comment_120694269

The Government has a duty of care to its citizens. That's why we have laws, particularly around addictive drugs.

Tavrin Callas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694311#Comment_120694311

Way to miss the post of my post!! Yes, the Government has a duty of care to its citizens. It also has to allow it certain freedoms too, otherwise anything and everything that might cause damage to a citizen will be banned.

People seem to have a knee-jerk reaction though when it comes to drugs, because, "drug are bad, mkay??" that doesn't happen with other things that can also cause health or injury problems. Legalisation, with the proper measures would actually provide a better duty of care to citizens than allowing them to remain legal, have the drug thugs rule, and people not actually knowing what they might be smoking or taking in the product they buy.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694353#Comment_120694353

The easy availability of opioids has done wonders for America. No earthly way in heaven heavy duty drugs will ever be legalised,nor should they.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692336#Comment_120692336

Heroin can kill, but has an antidote. Ecstasy and cocaine can be lethal in any quantities as they can cause very serious heart rhythm disturbances.

Tavrin Callas

The reason I included horse riding in my list of hazardous activities, was something I once read, but I'd forgotten where. I did a search and it would have been from Ben Goldacre's Bad Science book where he spoke about David Nutt's comments about horse riding being more dangerous than ecstasy as proved by evidence based research. But, because horse riding feels more wholesome than ecstasy, then people will want to ban one and promote the other, ignoring actual evidence. More here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt#%22Equasy%22

suvigirl

I have spent the last 25 years working in a job where I see crime daily.

I cannot quantify it properly, but purely from my observations I'm gonna guess between 75-80% of crime in this country is because of drugs. And I could see if they were legalised how we could have a massive drop in crimes.

Everything from assaults, burglaries, shoplifting, pickpockets, robberies up to murders, all as a result of illegal drugs. Take the power away from criminals and put the money spent now in the courts, prisons and on gardai to use in education, and counseling for those that need it.

Although in order for it to work properly, we would probably need worldwide consensus.

jface187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691544#Comment_120691544

You might stab the guy and go to jail. Also they would come back for you and your wife and kill the pair of you and your son for killing one of them. Unless your John Wick going after a drug cartel by yourself not a good idea.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694397#Comment_120694397

That's disingenuous in the extreme.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691544#Comment_120691544

I would feel like this mysel;f but after you stab him, the law is the least of your worries. You will probably actually be begging for the law to come and rescue you not long afterwards because the rest of the scumbags will be terrorizing you and the cops wont be anywhere to be seen.

Brave and all as it is to strike back, know that when you do that it wont be the end of it. And who will go further, you or them?

Tavrin Callas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694442#Comment_120694442

How?

Criminals will always find some way to exploit crime. To imagine that giving out free drugs of choice on demand by your local pharmacy will happen is extremely naive to say the least. Criminals will always find ways to control things, always have done. To imagine doctors and pharmacists are going to drop ethical and safety standards to satisfy the whim of patients is unrealistic? It’s just not going to happen. Maybe in decades time some much better substitutes or treatments for addiction will manifest.

I’m having a very hard time with my health atm and get very down. Nothing like a bit of aul heroin or ecstasy or something to take me out of bad patches, I imagine for the short term, but I’d end up with even more health damage longer term, if I survived. No doctor is going to sign off on my whims, and rightly so.

I used to fly light aircraft, quite a risky hobby although the machines I flew had a superior safety record because of their benign stall characteristics, but I’d rather end my life doing something I genuinely got enormous fun and ongoing learning from than taking an dose of some drug. I think any horse rider would say the same, the interaction with a beautiful horse is so dignified and brings such joy to the rider and stable fraternity. There’s a lot more to flying and riding to keep one occupied, there’s the learning, planning, grooming care & preparation.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694284#Comment_120694284

Not sure why 'legalisation' people are getting angry at my posts.

Being honest about the effects of cannabis should the starting point of any position.

I'm not telling you how to interpret the facts.

"But coffee" is a very weak talking point though. Coffee has several positive health effects.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694682#Comment_120694682

It's because you link to articales without any input of your own whatsover and without making any point.

We all know that drugs are dangerous in the wrong hands - every drug is addictive to some degree and to some people - so why else are you linking to it...?

Also, cannabis has very positive effects in some people too - again, that's your point?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694311#Comment_120694311

The government also has a duty of protecting freedoms and civil liberties - such as smoking a few joints in own home late at night and involving no one else - in the same way as drinking a few beers in my own home late at night and involving no one else.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694764#Comment_120694764

Look at the conversation. One poster (Mellor) specifically asked for evidence of the claim made upthread by a different poster that newer strains of cannabis can be harmful to young people. In that context I linked to the conclusions of these researchers.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694811#Comment_120694811

Uh huh, and I said they’re accidentally making the case for legalisation. Not banning it outright, as it hasn’t worked, doesn’t work and won’t work.

I don’t understand why we as a society keep banging our head off the wall with regards to drugs and keep thinking we’ll have a different outcome. Prohibition hasn’t, won’t and will not work. Anywhere.

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694868#Comment_120694868

Because it's really about control and an, 'If I don't like it than it should be banned' attitude.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694811#Comment_120694811

impossible for me to know as you don't quote any posts. Also, you don't highlight the bit you do know.

I read it and it sounded like baseless scaremongering (one in three people get addicted to cannabis, smoking it once a week?! Once a week is hardly an addiction!) with no conclusions or suggestions from the writer of the article.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694147#Comment_120694147

that doesn’t really make sense though. It’s sold by weight. If a new potent strain is sold at the same price as previous weaker strains, then the customer is getting more for their money.

Dealer would need to increase the price to make more money.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694381#Comment_120694381

Alcohol kills more than any of the above and we don't ban things 'cos a minority of people die from using them. People have died using motorbikes, cars, airplanes etc but those modes of transport are still legal and rightly so. Also over 99% of people who use cocaine do NOT die from the experience.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694972#Comment_120694972

What you get for €50 now is not what you got for €50 5 years ago.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694381#Comment_120694381

Interestingly, ecstasy was also considered a marital aid once as it allowed husbands and wives to open up more and enjoy each other more. It is known as the love drug after all.

JupiterKid

Unfortunately, opinions on illegal drugs in this country are so entrenched and borne out of complete ignorance, deep cultural conditioning, misinformation/hearsay and one word: fear.

Ireland is a very backward country when it comes to properly addressing drugs in a rational, logical manner.

Alcohol is without question the most dangerous drug in this country - the endless misery is causes is well documented and yet because it is culturally normalised and entrenched, it is seen as acceptable and drinking to celebrate/unwind is actually encouraged. I see lots of posts on social media - and here on Boards too - about having a hard day and “relaxing” with a bottle of wine or a few whiskeys etc.

It’s very interesting (and sad IMO) how people seem to be very shrill on the negative impacts of illegal drugs yet ignore the massive societal damage done by alcohol.

Legalisation and regulation of all recreational drugs is really the only way forward. Ireland is just a very slow learner in this respect. Criminals will always find ways to exploit prohibition which has utterly failed and reforming drug laws in a meaningful manner would cut drug-related crime massively.

The problem is that politicians in this country lack any gumption and backbone to properly deal with the issue and fear of the unknown is very strong.

Meanwhile, the illegal drug trade continues to thrive and hundreds of thousands of Irish people dabble in illicit substances every day or every weekend, regardless of the legal status. Plenty of politicians in the Dail who publicly denounce drugs but dabble in private. It’s hypocrisy in the extreme.

Patrick2010

Big difference between someone having a few glasses of wine and someone shooting heroin into their arm.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695160#Comment_120695160

Big difference between someone drinking a pint of gin and having a joint.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694413#Comment_120694413

Explain why legalizing it would bring crime down? Unless shops are going to give free drugs addicts that are committing crime to fund their habit will still have to find the money somehow.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695169#Comment_120695169

Here’s a decent enough article

https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight

The move away from criminalising and imprisoning people who use drugs has led to a dramatic change in the profile of the prison population. In 2001, over 40% of the sentenced Portuguese prison population were held for drug offences, considerably above the European average, and 70% of reported crime was associated with drugs.13 While the European average has gradually risen over the past twenty years (from 14 to 18%), the proportion of people sentenced for drug offences in Portuguese prisons has fallen dramatically to 15.7% in 2019 — now below the European average.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695132#Comment_120695132

It's not a slow learner. No country has legalised all recreational drugs. Nor will they.