Barbarity of drug pushers

Was reliably informed of 3 guys who called to a house in Ennis looking for payment of a drug debt from the parents of the son. The parents refused protesting that they had already paid €4k and could pay no more. This btw is what one would call a respectable professional couple.

Apparently the 3 grabbed the son and with a pliers removed 3 teeth in front of the parents. The parents and son refuse to press charges as they are terrified of escalating violence.

What on earth has happened to our society that thugs like this can brazenly go about terrorizing people?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058299936/barbarity-of-drug-pushers

I honestly have no understanding for this. Violence always breeds violence and always leads to different and confliting opinions. There is no point in answering violence with compassion and understanding. I'd be vigilant, and if a drug pusher would approach my house and demand something, I'd stab him with a knife. If it came to a trial, I would argue self defense with an aggressor. The aggressor would most likely be known by police or his background can be verified, so it'll be one against the other in court. And the whole problem wouldn't happen if the police was more effective or possibly better funded.

Wanderer78

...extremely out of date approach to drugs....

....probably wont change either....

Jequ0n

What exactly did they think would happen if they refused to pay? Even the dumbest person on earth should know that this would bring forth retaliation.

Even if they don’t end up paying others in similar circumstances will now to avoid a similar fate. Its nothing new.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691544#Comment_120691544

...guess a stint in jail wouldnt be too bad!

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691641#Comment_120691641

The problem is that who would the courts believe more, the honest working home owner or the drug pusher? And yes, you have the right to defend yourself.

Also, what's the point in paying a criminal, and being coerced by them, even if you pay, they will come again.

And then there is the police, they are there to protect you, but where are they?

z80CPU

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691545#Comment_120691545

A similar case was documented in Drogheda on RTE Radio 1 a few years ago. The parents paid up before any $^*&% was done then.

tinytobe

The problem with drug pushers is that they only know violence and brute force and at the same time they are not the smartest, because if they were, they'd have different jobs.

Paying them, is like paying Putin in hopes for something and that something will never ever happen.

Flaneur OBrien

Sounds like yet another good reason for the legalisation/decriminalisation of drugs.

Larbre34

That's not a new tactic.

Settling drugs debts with menaces is a 50 year old phenomenon in this Country, at least.

Either learn to pay for what you consume, learn how to handle yourself physically, or don't do drugs kids.

The Guards certainly haven't the resources to be minding every gobshite who got in over his head.

Quitelife

A lot of drugs debts are dubled or quaddroubled on a weekly basis so youve no hope of paying it.

Same in County Limerick, a parents jeep was burned out last weekend over their daughters cocaine debt , travellers control the drug scene in county Limerick and start laughing if you mention the guards. Practically all garda stations in county limerick were closed in 2013.

Theres nobody to protect the people.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691692#Comment_120691692

....reality check! you actually cant go around stabbing people, you will actually be arrested!

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058299936/barbarity-of-drug-pushers

The law isn’t a deterrent. Therefore the risk of carrying out the act is worth the reward. Courts and judges are disassociated from real life and their responsibilities, there is little oversight, certainly no effective oversight. Politicians like the judges are too far removed from reality…. Politicians have nothing to gain they are on the grab all gravy train…little to no accountability.

If the guys were caught… 3-4 year sentence, good chunk suspended so 🤨

literally someone will have to be standing up for our genuine citizens…

You should be looking at a decade inside for that sort of crime.

Tomaldo

Alcohol is a drug that causes more deaths than any illegal one, but I've yet to hear of a pub or off-licence owner who has threatened the family of an alcoholic for unpaid debts. As another poster said, this is another good reason why legalization should be tried.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691848#Comment_120691848

This is why I wouldn't live there. Limerick has a bad reputation anyway.

Even the mere discussion about the subject sparks verbal conflict.

Drug dealers and drug debts are still a criminal matter. They are to be handled by the police, and if the police can't one must sadly take things into his or her own hands, and not be caught.

If it came to court who would be believed more, the traveller-drug dealer and collector or the resident who works in a decent job?

NewbridgeIR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691907#Comment_120691907

If the law isn't a deterrent and a light sentence is inevitable then you'd wonder why don't more people follow @tinytobe 's suggestion.

The problem is that retaliation often carries a harsher punishment - which always seems unfair.

Having said that, if you do take the law into your hands you'll probably get more personal satisfaction and are likely to feel that justice was achieved - much more so than you'd get in court as a victim who wouldn't fight back.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691796#Comment_120691796

Sounds like a good reason to make fire arms more available to me , I’d have given the tinkers both barrels

purplepanda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692083#Comment_120692083

Over the top retaliation would not be considered fair by courts. Defensive reaction to being attacked would be a valid defence in court.

By over the top I would mean something like repeatedly assaulting & injuring your attacker after they have stopped trying to attack you & your family.

Keep some Hurls by the hallway, with a few sliotars nearby, when the cops come round after an incident you have the proof that you defended your property with whatever you had nearby to hand.

The cops asked to see the balls when a gang of yobs attacked my house 10 years back. If I had a baseball bat instead without the balls I would have been arrested!

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691796#Comment_120691796

Yes, and then the people who will pull people's teeth out will say "we had a good run lads, now all let's get jobs as baristas". I agree that with some kind of legalization you remove the problem of policing smugglers etc., but you will end up with other problems and the underground trade will still be there.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692147#Comment_120692147

Ya think?

You think dispensaries will let people get into debt?

You think legalisation won’t free up resources for the guards to tackle animals like these? Or to tackle an underground trade?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692140#Comment_120692140

After having thoroughly cleaned the "instruments" I would have stated to the cops that a bunch of mean looking travellers turned up at my doorstep and were already injured and thus I called the authorities.

The travellers would not have been able to proof that I've injured them nor would they be able to state that they were here to collect on a dug debt or whatever vigilantism they were trying to carry out.

Tavrin Callas

Well, here's a novel (and probably unpopular) idea - how about you don't go buying drugs from these sort of people in the first place. Every time anyone buys drugs illegally you're supporting this sort of criminal behaviour.

I do think drugs should be fully legalised, but until (or if) they are, just don't support the sort of people who sell them.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692218#Comment_120692218

And where do you think people will get drugs from?

Tavrin Callas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692222#Comment_120692222

Obviously they don't get their drugs. You can't have it every which way. Buy drugs and you're supporting this sort of criminality (and then whining about it). Or don't buy them. We're not talking about the necessities required for life here!

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691986#Comment_120691986

You can't legalise hard drugs.

Maybe they let the kid run up a debt knowing they could tap the parents. Or the kid was dealing and sniffed the lot.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692248#Comment_120692248

You can definitely decriminalise hard drugs. It’s called a health led approach and works wonders in Portugal.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692196#Comment_120692196

Dream on.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692218#Comment_120692218

Only sensible solution.

And one that costs nothing.

rolling boh

It's a consequence of taking drugs that young folk don't consider the danger they are putting their families in .There are no free drugs someone always has hefty price to pay .Unfortunately taking the law into your own hands won't end well for the household .

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692248#Comment_120692248

Methadone is a heroin substitute ,given to addicts freely by the state. They can get clean needles in places like Merchants Quay, medically supervised injection rooms are coming soon and some countries give actual heroin to addicts. That drug is practically legal anyway, but it's called treatment or harm reduction. In a 5 year period the HSE gave 50,000 crack pipes to addicts to help prevent disease. Can you give me ONE good reason why cocaine and ecstasy are and should remain illegal, 'cos I've yet to hear it.

johannmall

Isn't this the "legalise drugs" , rock upon which well all perish, wholesale intimidation by thugs under the influence of older criminals , look at that poor kid mulready Woods!

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692218#Comment_120692218

When contraception was illegal Irish people still smuggled it from N.Ireland and England. When homosexuality was against the law, people still practised it, they didn't wait 'til it was legalised. I know they both didn't involve enriching criminals. The war on drugs was declared 50 years ago by Richard Nixon and they were illegal before then, drug-users have shown they're not going to wait 'til politicians end this insanity.

johannmall

So bringing a pack of rubbers into the country is the equivalent of bringing a kilo of smack into the country, Jesus wept , the weed they sell today is now being treated with fentanal , what chance will kids have !

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692742#Comment_120692742

I didn't say that, a poster suggested people shouldn't use drugs 'til they're LEGAL but people still used contraceptives before the law was changed. Drug-users are doing the same. Your point about fentanyl in weed is another good reason why grass should be legal.

Strumms

Legalising wont happen, so the champions of that particular warpath are wasting their time.

to have it manufactured properly in labs, packaged in proper packaging , tested, audited for quality , shipped / transported, machinery , training, outfitting, maintenance, … cost would be astronomical to the consumer … Whatever lab are going to be paying to cover serious overheads, manufacturing, staff, light, heat, security, pensions, health and safety, cleaners….too…

drug dealers have none of those issues… an out of the way barn…, false floor in the back of a transit and packed in shrink wrap and tinfoil.

johannmall

Fair enough! But if you start with weed then it's a slippery slope to the greater gateway , I guarantee a crack or heroin addict started out on weed and progressed , there's an argument for legalisation in terms of the victims of crime used to fund habits or degrading your humanity to get a fix !

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692693#Comment_120692693

How will we all perish if drugs are legalised. They won't be compulsory, nobody will trick or force you to take them. That kid died because they're illegal.

johannmall

Education only goes so far but when something that's illicit for a damn good reason is suddenly green lighted then how do you try to educate a kid on the horror of addiction, so yeah it's the rock well perish on !

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692787#Comment_120692787

"won't happen" I can remember Unionist politicians saying they wouldn't debate with terrorists (Sinn Fein) in TV studios, some time later Ian Paisley shared power with Martin McGuinness. If that can happen, then the legalisation of drugs should be very doable. Marijuana is already being legally produced in America and Canada, I can't see a reason why the same can't happen with other drugs.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692799#Comment_120692799

They all started on booze and nicotine though.

johannmall

Fair point ! But as like your namesake who enjoyed a pint of plain , it doesn't require shoplifting or other criminality to finance a couple of pints ! On nicotine, they should just stop growing tobacco and well just get through it !

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692787#Comment_120692787

What on earth are you on about. OTC medication, such as paracetamol, is cheap to buy, and goes through all of the stringent QA requirements.

Most of the drugs sold on the black market can be made far safer, cheaper and more controllable than what is happening now.

The first step is to #decrim the drug user. The next, gradually introduce a safe and regulated market, starting with cannabis. And then move on to other substances in a sensible way, that is informed by real data.

The biggest obstacle we face in trying to reduce harm is stigma, bigotry, and in this case Srumms, ignorance.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692799#Comment_120692799

The vast vast majority of drug-users do not end up in prison, rehab or robbing OAPs. Think of the top rock bands, Hollywood actors, supermodels and senior business people who have used illegal drugs, Prince Harry admitted he took coke, there's evidence William Shakespeare took it too, I'll repeat, Robin Williams said "cocaine is God's way of saying you're earning too much money"

johannmall

And who'll regulate these markets, really , a minister for scag , yokes & crack etc , are you fir real 😳

johannmall

That's why when a muso/ artist does drugs its rocknroll but the ordinary man is a junkie , that cohort you mentioned had the luxury of very expensive rehab clinics and endless wealth to finance their addiction! I work close to a certain Eden Quay Lane way and watching a young girl go down on a total miscreant so as to score is utterly shocking and God forbid my own ever ended up in that way ! She's somebody's daughter !

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692910#Comment_120692910

I've used a few drugs and I don't have endless wealth, never been to rehab, nor am I an addict (the "J "word is a very insulting word to them and me). The girl you mentioned probably had issues in her life and took heroin to mask her problems. I read Rachel Keogh's book (a reformed heroin addict), she discovered through counselling the reason she took heroin was because her mother didn't bring her up, her grandmother did, felt unloved. Of course, hedonists like Keith Richards and Mick Jagger also took it.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692891#Comment_120692891

We already have a minister of state for the National Drugs Strategy, Hildegarde Naughton, who has admitted trying cannabis

johannmall

I heard the Kenny interview with that girl an appalling childhood, the majority of addicts I've met came from stable loving homes ! And I'm not criticising casual drug users , some people can like those you mentioned including two married MIT professors who experimented with pure mdma lived long fruitful lives but there's too many who don't & end up in a living hell & that's the outcome for the many , while you might like an occasional spliff I bet you've never mainlined horse !

johannmall

Lol ! At least she inhaled ! Today's weed compared to when hilda tried it is way more potent , legalizing it says to kids that it's acceptable but the latter end of their formative years are going to lead to all sorts of psychosis!

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692967#Comment_120692967

No, 'cos I hate needles, that's why I have no tattoos but I did ice (crystal meth) in Thailand many years ago. The girl who introduced me to it took too much of it, neglected her kids, spent nearly all her money on it. I enjoyed the buzz/feeling but the after effects for me were horrible, no sleep, sex, couldn't eat or go to toilet properly and that's what put me off doing it too often or getting addicted, never did it in Ireland.

johannmall

How is that going to be regulated ? You said yourself moving from weed to other substances , well meth sounds like a blast ! I apologise for the pontificating and what people do behind closed doors is their own business but kids have it hard enough already without having to battle what you're advocating !