M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Rail improvements are absolutely needed. We have debated this in this thread and in a dedicated thread previously. Putting it briefly, the Cork to Limerick service needs to be a proper Inter City service rather than something that resembles a Percy French song. This can be achieved quickly by:

• Provide dedicated rolling stock to allow a direct service
• Complete of the Cork Line Level Crossings project
• Complete the other planned interventions on the relevant section of the Dublin/Cork line (ballast/sleeper replacement etc)
• Make such alterations as are necessary to Limerick Junction to allow frequent Cork-Limerick services to operate safely and efficiently and without disrupting the Dublin-Cork service
• Double Track Limerick-Limerick Junction

These are relatively low cost interventions and can be completed with a minimum of planning risk or other delays. These can deliver a half hourly service (direct on the hour, Limerick-limerick Junction on the half hour to meet the Cork Dublin train) and a journey time on the direct service of 60/70 mins.

A direct Patrickswell Limerick link looks great on a map and appeals to the nostalgic Choo Choo train brigade. But the cost would be enormous, the risk of planning delays wold be immense, the minimum time for delivery is 10 years and it serves no other purpose in the short/medium term (freight, commuter etc). And the benefits are marginal. The money that this would cost would be far better spent on the Cork-Limerick Junction line to allow high/higher speed running where the expenditure would benefit not just the Cork-Limerick traffic, but also the Cork-Dublin traffic and any other services that use it, e.g. Mallow commuter.

But in the Cork-Limerick context, no matter what improvements are made to the rail service, rail will remain complimentary to road traffic and will not reduce road traffic to any significant degree. The reasons for that are a whole other discussion.

Cork has improved, with a couple more bus routes now actually calling in to Kent station, but yes, there needs to be a bus, or multiple buses, waiting when the trains come in. Good transport is all about connections: I used to live in Munich, and my work commute involved a 10-minute walk to the commuter-rail station to get a train most of the way, and then on getting off that train, one of the two buses waiting in front of the station would take me right outside the office where I worked. Trains on their own can’t solve the problem.

Like the other approaches to Cork city, the southern end of N20 will probably end up looking like a motorway, and having a motorway speed limit, without actually being under motorway restrictions.

If the plan is for "mobility hubs" at junctions, why have they located some junctions further from the rail line when they could be quite close?

I was referring to at Buttevant (where the junction could be moved slightly north) and Ballyhea (where the junction could be moved slightly south).

Also, surely a junction on the northern side of Charleville is required? There will still be plenty of people who would have to drive down the main street to grt on the new road heading south. Even a relief road for the town would be something.

I'm not sure that stating that junctions will be at selected locations like this is a good idea. I'm sure there'll be some kickback from certain communities who will say they will bear all the negative aspects while got getting any of the benefits. It happened last time. I know people complain about consultations but they serve a purpose, they flush out issues and allow the project team to be prepared for them. Just announcing junction locations like this will give ammo to the objectors and I'm sure the papers will be full of articles about it quoting disgruntled locals next week.

https://corklimerick.ie/february-2023-update/

The update is interesting and gives a sense of the amount of work being done. Difficult to fault the junction strategy apart from some questions around Charleville, but that was always going to be a challenge. There may be one or two junctions too many in terms of Motorway norms, but if built to motorway standard (such as they are in this country) the road should be well capable of handling the "local" traffic these suck in, always provided that these are grade separated and not those abhorrent mini trumpet junctions on the N22 and southern end of the M7. The number of junctions will also help attract traffic from all points west of the road giving it a badly needed gateway function.

The active travel strategy contains a lot of food for thought and is a constructive outcome resulting from the green noise. Hopefully that, together with the public transport elements will be enough to GreenProof the project and allow it to proceed when it gets to the business case, fund allocation and government approval stages. (Interesting to see the inclusion of the Rail Section in the update, even though this has nothing to do with the project at this stage or going forward).

I continue to be impressed by the deft way this project is being handled, especially given the challenges thrown up by a hostile and misguided minister.

If there is to only be one Charleville junction, it needs to move 1.5km further north and a link road provided going north to the R515 and south to the junction of the existing N20 and the Old Cork road there.

I'd hold back on praising the way the project is being handled until we seewhat sort of backlash there is from this latest update.

Your J8 and J9 would be much too close to each other - just 2.5km separates the location of the current Charleville junction and the one you propose to add - basically you’d be constructing a junction complex just to serve a tiny amount of extra traffic.

R515 could be accommodated by a link road on the western side, but I’d be concerned that a direct access onto the motorway would be a magnet that would draw traffic through the town centre from the Kilmallock Road, out to Smiths Lane and undo the benefits of bypassing the town in the first place. There are major plans to rework the centre of Charleville once the bypass is in place, and I suspect this will include a new routing for R515 traffic

There are seven intermediate junctions, and they’re placed about 11~12 km apart. That’s a normal ratio for a motorway.

The transport hubs at each junction are a great idea- especially as they can also serve as rest areas: something that Irish motorways are lacking. Sometimes you just need a place to park up and see to a child or take a phone call, and placing these at each junction means drivers will use them, because it doesn’t involve any real additional distance. My one concern is how these will be maintained: some locations are quite remote, and there would need to be fairly regular policing to prevent them becoming sites for anti-social behaviour or vandalism.

The problem with Charleville is it kinda needs a link road built bypassing the town to the north - and that might be a step too far in terms of getting this project sorted.

All that said when the M20 opens I don't think there'll be any traffic problems at all there anymore.

Strongly agree on how the project is being handled: really well.

On the active transport strategy they can do a little bit more yet, but I think it's still one of the best projects I've seen in that regard. For the first time a holistic approach to transport infrastructure design. Somebody is actually asking questions about the active transport route!

The current road is about 15.0 metres wide along here, including the verges; a full Type 1 Dual Carriageway (i.e. a motorway with two lanes each way) would be 25.6 metres wide, including verges, so the worst case is that maybe 10~11 metres of new road would added on your side of the old one. There is no way on earth that there would be more than two lanes each way at this point on the route.

But really, your best bet would be to get in touch with the project team - they could give you a better indication of what is being planned, and you can make suggestions. The exact placement of the new road is not finalised yet, so if there’s going to be a problem for you, now is the time to talk:

The map in the brochure clearly shows the new road passing to the west of the village. Whether or not that is "behind" the church depends on your perspective because the church is at a T-junction.