To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

Sconsey · 08-04-2023 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454354#Comment_120454354

You are willfully ignoring the fact that many peers have criticized it, the links are in this thread for feck sake!

Sconsey · 08-04-2023 4:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454330#Comment_120454330

More evidence that mask wearing was pointless in preventing the spread of covid in hospitals, hand hygiene was far more important.

Way to make up your own headline there...the first study said fomite transmission is a issue, never once mentioned hospitals, in fact it explicitly talks about in the home. But you seem to have decided that the first study relates to the second study. Why did you do that?

The second study contributor said “That doesn’t mean masks are worthless against omicron, but their real-world benefit in isolation appears to be, at best, modest in a healthcare setting.”

Again no mention of hand washing, did you need to make up a connection in the two of them to try make your point seem more valid? You should at least mention that you are making great leaps in logic.

odyssey06 · 08-04-2023 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454354#Comment_120454354

There's posts on the thread including links from peers questioning the Cochrane study. So your claim is false even within the scope of this thread. And here's The Journal

https://www.thejournal.ie/does-the-cochrane-review-prove-masks-are-useless-at-stopping-infections-5990426-Feb2023/

The Cochrane meta data collated what they felt was relevent to a particular point of view. That point of view is not necessarily relevant to mask mandates because many of the studies they looked at masks as direct PPE. As has been explained innumerable times on the thread that's not what mask mandates were about.

Noted you were completely unable to defend your claim that the studies were setup to track wider spread. So my point stands.

odyssey06 · 08-04-2023 4:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454330#Comment_120454330

Or the reason why they got infected was because someone was exhaling the virus and they breathed it in, and the virus droplets also left their trace on surfaces. The people who were concerned about virus spread and cleansed surfaces may also have been taking other measures such as distancing and masks and isolation. After all, why were some households more sanitary than others.

Impossible to say from the limited data in the study how the transmission actually occurred.

Goldengirl · 09-04-2023 5:18pm

Without seeing those studies there could be many confounding factors as to the results...different population of patients, type of admissions eg day surgery and outpatients as opposed to long stay medical or surgical patients.

Fathom · 10-04-2023 6:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451676#Comment_120451676

This statement ignores the multiple methodological problems associated with the Cochrane meta study of masking (briefly discussed earlier) that seriously questions its research design, diverse and sometimes problematic data sets, confounding mix or absence of variables, different studies time frames, lack of specific COVID longitudinal studies, comparative analysis’ potential errors, questionable reliability, validity, and conclusions.

As to your “sponsored consensus” claim, where was your objective evidence for such sponsorship? Or was this merely your anecdotal opinion, which may appear to some readers of this thread as an unfortunate ad hominem fallacy that detracts from the value of your argument?

Personally, I have attempted to argue earlier that caution must be exercised when viewing research, because the scientific method only suggests and does not prove. And that all scientific research and associated theories must exhibit falsifiability (see Karl Popper, et al). Studies must be challenged, and their results only have utility so long as the preponderance of evidence suggests support.

Consequently, the Cochrane meta analysis should continue to be challenged, and thus far its methodological problems have been so significant as to suggest great caution before using it as a foundation for your argument about masking.

mcsean2163 · 10-04-2023 8:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238912#Comment_118238912

What is the alternative?

We see the alternative in 2023. No masks, no nonsense, get in with life and stop worrying about covid19.

It was insanity, the damage done to certain kids was a crime.

Goldengirl · 30-04-2023 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462707#Comment_120462707

How can you reply like that to a post that was posted in Nov 2021 , when there were climbing numbers of Covid everywhere , most people had only just had one or two doses of vaccine , and Delta a very dangerous variant was on the go ? Totally different , no comparison to now .. 🙄

Sure , now its totally different and hindsight is a wonderful thing once Omicron started to be the main variant . Noone would disagree that those methods are not necessary the way things are now and people are and have moved on . Blaming individual sectors for the outcomes and effects post pandemic is just dogwhistling.

But main point is this is a ridiculous post , and very unfair, replying in that manner 17 months later . How did you even dig it up?

Did you ever hear of context?

WaterWipes · 30-04-2023 7:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120539369#Comment_120539369

Keep your dogwhistling to yourself.

Some of us knew from the very outset that this was all a major panic generated by the government and media, egged on by people working from home who got extra enjoyment from being told what to do by said government.

People who complained about the restrictions got vilified, named and shamed, sometimes even fired, unless they went to a black lives matters protest that is.

Most people halfheartedly wore the masks, because there was legal penalties and you couldn't even go for a food shop unless you wore one, not to mention browbeating and even peer pressure.

The "mandatory wearing of masks in healthcare settings", even though it wasn't mandatory nor were there any laws backing it up, went away a few weeks ago and so did the masks... people were literally just going through the motions because they were led to believe it was legally required.

It's finally, finally, finally over now.

Fathom · 01-05-2023 4:32am

The conclusions drawn from a recently reported Finland study of mask wearing (Cosmos 1 May 2023), “Study finds that masks did not reduce Covid-19 for children aged 10-12” by Petra Stock, should be approached with caution. The report stated a major limitation that was problematic:

”No specific kind of masks were mandated among children. However, surgical face masks were the most used face mask type at the time.”

Consequently, the Finish study failed to measure type of mask; and there have been reports that mask effectiveness varies by type, including pre vs post-Omicron virus variants over time.

According to Dr Leana Wen of George Washington University Milken Institute School of Public Health:

”Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. There’s no place for them in light of Omicron.”

Per Dr Erin Bromage of University of Massachusetts Dartmouth: ”Surgical or disposable masks are around 5% to 10% less effective than N95… (and) depending on their ASTM International Categorization — with types 1, 2, and 3 ranking surgical masks from least to most effective.”

Furthermore, about 60% of KN95 were counterfeit per CDC.

Consequently, just claiming that a mask has been or not worn in a study, without measuring mask composition and types, or if counterfeit, leaves the Finland study problematic and should be viewed with caution.

Caution, especially when Petra Stock noted:

”The researchers say they could not completely account for all confounding factors.”

01-05-2023 12:18pm

Conclusion: masks were mostly useless in reducing or preventing the spread of covid.

Filling reports with excuses does not diminish that fact.

01-05-2023 12:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120540418#Comment_120540418

Totally agree with everything, except the working from home part, which was of great benefit for those of us who have a home office.

We were finally able to prove that commuting to an office just for the sake of it was for many jobs, pointless.

odyssey06 · 01-05-2023 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542597#Comment_120542597

An utterly disingenuous and total misrepresentation of the study.

That is not a conclusion of the study and you know it.

Go on prove me wrong - find me the factual statement in the study that states that.

So no that is not a fact - it is usually a red flag when someome shouts 'fact' like that, it is anythig but.

There are different masks, different variants of covid and different settings - all of which impact effectiveness. Those are not excuses they are realities.

Other studies have shown effectivness of masks and also lab studies showing droplet reduction. All cited on this thread.

01-05-2023 3:33pm

The numbers of cases after the mandates were enforced says otherwise.

odyssey06 · 01-05-2023 4:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543149#Comment_120543149

No they don't. How could they?

Masks were brought in in response to rising cases, to reduce or slow transmission, to bring down the R factor.

In some cases, masks were brought in \ retained as other restrictions were lifted.

It wasn't a static situation.

And the studies that have tried to look at a 'static' situation such as Australia showed masks having an effect.

It's like saying seat belts didn't reduce deaths from car accidents, not considering if lots more people were driving around, or what else was happening with speed limits or drink driving laws.

01-05-2023 7:14pm

You'll be telling us next that dinosaur repellent is 100% effective because you've never had a dinosaur near you since using it.

odyssey06 · 01-05-2023 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543740#Comment_120543740

Strawman nonsense.

For one thing I dont attempt to second guess 2020 and 2021 decisions on the basis of post Omicron data, pretending the virus was the same virus and the state of play was the same.

01-05-2023 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543818#Comment_120543818

Well, you did mention seatbelts, another strawman reference.

tesla_newbie · 12-05-2023 12:56pm

Poked fun ( in a gentle manner) at a thirty something guy in a Centra wearing a mask yesterday while he was serving people, as others have said, for some people, the mask has become a key part of their personality and identity

its quite sad really

odyssey06 · 12-05-2023 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587146#Comment_120587146

You've no idea why they are wearing the mask, yet feel you're in a position to make these comments about their personality and identify.

Other people may come to the 'quite sad really' conclusion about that behaviour.

tesla_newbie · 12-05-2023 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587205#Comment_120587205

I asked him had he gotten the dose and he replied “ no , just never stopped wearing it “

looked healthy as a horse , was a light hearted exchange, where I’m from people casually comment on things

odyssey06 · 12-05-2023 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587323#Comment_120587323

So I don't see where you got "the mask has become a key part of their personality and identity" from that then, if it is your takeaway from the conversation.

For all you know, that's just his banter response, and he has an immuno-compromised loved one he is concerned about. Or he has issues. Looks can be deceptive.

Really you don't know either way.

tesla_newbie · 12-05-2023 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587400#Comment_120587400

Well he did drop clues by saying “ No , just never stopped wearing it “

I asked him “ did you get the dose “ ( thinking he may have been recovering right now) ,just an informal question as part of the service counter chit chat

elperello · 12-05-2023 2:15pm

I was in a hospital during the week after driving someone to an appointment.

I put a mask in my pocket going in but nobody was wearing one so I didn't use it.

If I had to sit beside someone who was wearing one I'd have used it but that didn't arise.

We are still in a transition so a little understanding goes a long way.

You can't be sure why a person has a mask on.

odyssey06 · 12-05-2023 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587489#Comment_120587489

Plus, now that people have gotten used to wearing masks, and have a supply readily available, they may wear them for reasons that have nothing to do with covid. Maybe for other health concerns. Maybe for hayfever, allergies, bad breath, like a scarf\snood for wind.