Mens Rights Thread

BrianD3 · 05-02-2023 12:15pm

Wasn't sure where to put this but did anyone see the interview Beth Rigby (sky news) did with Mike Pompeo, former US Secretary of State under Trump. Interview was more or less as you'd expect. Rigby was quite formal and repeatedly addressed him as Sir.

Then at the end, she complimented him on his appearance and having lost weight! Maybe it was agreed in advance but it seemed odd. Not a mention of it on Twitter or anywhere online. Now, if a male journalist commented on say, Kamala Harris' weight, even to compliment her, I think we all know what would happen.

iptba · 06-02-2023 1:46am

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/defence-forces-to-undergo-training-in-gender-and-diversity-bias-after-report-raised-concerns-about-masculine-culture-42327433.html

Defence Forces to undergo training in gender and diversity bias after report raised concerns about ‘masculine culture’

I’m left wondering whether if not done well whether focusing on such issues too much could affect a military’s effectiveness.

iptba · 07-02-2023 1:27am

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/02/04/jennifer-oconnell-why-is-the-government-perpetuating-tropes-about-single-male-asylum-seekers

Jennifer O’Connell: Why is the Government perpetuating tropes about single male asylum seekers?

The ‘military-age men’ idea is a well-worn trope of right-wing rhetoric, and our politicians have fallen into the dangerous trap of reinforcing it

It’s an interesting topic. But this article isn’t really particularly sympathetic to men. Quite a number of women’s groups have been sharing it on Twitter and its talk that men known to women make up most of the people who harm them. And so many of these are Irish rather than migrants. No mention of any crimes or misdeeds committed by women.

iptba · 07-02-2023 2:25am

‘A sweet victory for all mná’: Why we should celebrate St Brigid's Day

"The first question, however, is not so much how we will celebrate, but whom? Revered saint or pagan goddess? Or both?"

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/people/arid-41062703.html

I haven't consumed much media content on St Brigid's Day but based on this article it looks like it could be another day like International Women's Day with a focus on celebrating women. This is nothing like how St Patrick's Day has been celebrated.

Extract:

It was interesting that Brigit 2022, the excellent festival inaugurated last year by Alison Gilliland, then Lord Mayor of Dublin, opted to focus on the goddess Brigit — note the ‘t’ — who is associated with creativity and wisdom, and Imbolc, the beginning of spring. Her aim was to provide the space and opportunity to acknowledge and celebrate the contributions and achievements of women — all women. It was a city-wide initiative. It was free and it was a roaring success.

The festival, which is running again this year, also gives us some idea of the shape of St Brigid’s Day celebrations to come.

There are talks, walks, readings, tours and the now-familiar lighting up of buildings with images of Brigid — saint and goddess — and other inspirational women.

The theme of ‘inspiring women’ is a thread that runs through many of the events that have marked St Brigid’s Day up to now, and that fits with several of those planned for next week.

But there is so much more. A cursory glance at the programme for Brigid 1500, which will mark the 1,500th anniversary of the saint’s death in 2024, shows that this is a public holiday with dizzying potential.

There will be a Herstory light show, a GAA blitz, a celebration of women artists, another celebrating women in business, cross-making workshops, singing, music, poetry. And that is just a partial list. It goes to show that there is widespread interest in our new public holiday and the woman/women who inspired it.

iptba · 11-02-2023 3:37am

Sounds like 2 male gardai were afraid to make her leave presumably because she was a woman.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0210/1355888-enoch-burke

Secondary school teacher, Enoch Burke and his sister, Ammi were removed from a courtroom by gardai, after a High Court judge said he would not allow the business of the court to be disrupted by them.

[..]

When proceedings resumed around an hour later. Mr Burke attempted to continue addressing the court. The judge said he would not allow the business of the court to be disrupted and asked gardai to remove Mr Burke.

Two gardai then took Mr Burke by the arms and escorted him from the courtroom, telling him he could take a seat outside but could not come back in.

Mr Burke said it was a "disgrace" and he had a right to be heard. He stood looking in through the glass door of court number three, accompanied by a garda.

Ammi Burke remained in court and refused to leave despite being asked multiple times by the two members of An Garda Síochána.

She told the gardaí as well as lawyers in court that guards should not be directing her to leave, that the judge was fleeing the courtroom and it was a disgrace.

She asked "Where is Judge Brian O’Moore" and asked why he was hiding and what he was afraid of.

Ms Burke was then removed from the courtroom with the assistance of another, female garda.

iptba · 11-02-2023 3:42am

A 61-year-old sales director who was pressured to leave his job because his boss didn’t want “a team of bald-headed 50-year-old men,” has won £71,000 (€80,000) in discrimination related damages.

Mark Jones was victorious in a tribunal after Leeds-based Tango Network, the mobile phone firm he worked for, “chipped away” to encourage him to leave his £60,000-a-year role.

The Leeds court heard manager Philip Hesketh, himself a bald middle-aged man, had complained about workplace diversity saying he didn’t want “mirror images” of himself.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/payout-for-man-61-targeted-in-office-cull-of-bald-men-despite-full-head-of-hair-42336851.html

Deregos. · 11-02-2023 3:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227371#Comment_120227371

https://youtu.be/IVe4_SPLFJA

. . .

iptba · 15-02-2023 1:33am

There may be pros to this but a con is that a plaintiff (often a man) couldn’t represent themselves and legal representation is very expensive.

I don’t know much about the legal system: would this apply to family courts?

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/02/14/cabinet-to-discuss-plans-to-protect-vulnerable-witnesses-in-coercive-control-and-stalking-cases

Cabinet to discuss plans to protect vulnerable witnesses in coercive control and stalking cases

Expanded trial protections would prohibit those accused of coercive control from personally cross-examining victim or child

iptba · 18-02-2023 10:29pm

Richard Hogan: Masculinity is not what Andrew Tate says it is

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/people/arid-41072261.html

“He tells young boys that women are naturally hypergamous, only interested in alpha males who exude traditional masculine attributes such as competitiveness and aggression”

The empirical data seems to suggest that women still have a tendency to be financially hypergamous.

iptba · 20-02-2023 1:07am

Not a big point but caught a little bit of “The week in politics” on RTE. A female politician said “we need more women in politics”. The female presenter (Aine Lawlor I believe) said “yes”. Presenters in political programmes are supposed to be neutral but this is the first time I’ve heard a presenter agree or support a claim like this.

iptba · 21-02-2023 1:34am

I was impressed by this article in the Irish Times:

Amongst women: Why are there so few men in caring roles?

What’s it like to work in a women-dominated profession? A nurse, SNA, drama teacher, childcare worker and occupational therapist share their experiences

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2023/02/11/amongst-women-why-are-there-so-few-men-in-caring-roles

In the age of equality, anything men can do, women can do too. It’s a message we rightly sing loud and clear to our daughters and young women, as we encourage them to consider the endless job opportunities open to them, rather than following traditional gendered career paths.

But does the situation apply in reverse? Are we providing a similar, clear message to our sons and young men that they too can be anything they want to be? Caring roles, in particular, continue to be women-dominated; only about one in 10 nursing students are male, for example. If there’s noise being made to encourage more men into these professions, it’s barely audible.

Men bring a “different perspective to nursing”, McBrien believes. “Sometimes I think men can be even more caring than a woman can be.”

He admits that working in a women-dominated environment can be challenging at times. “Men don’t tend to hold grudges… The bitchiness type of thing. Talking in small groups. Not allowing men into the group. Talking about female subjects and not involving the man… In the earlier part of my career I found that very difficult.”

Carrying out intimate procedures on women, such as catheterisations, can make him “uncomfortable”, he says. He also feels there can be a power struggle occasionally, due to the gender-heavy nature of the profession. “Because there’s an awful a lot of women in the managerial area within hospitals and hospital groups, they can be a little resistant to men getting into those roles.”

According to the National College of Ireland, just one per cent of early childhood educators in Ireland are male. The average across Europe is 3 per cent.

“Many of the children who come to the creche may have no interactions with men in their lives, apart from the men who work in the creche. It is important for children to get both male and female interaction during their development.”

OT:

While he says he has never received any negative comments in relation to his career choice because of his gender, Turner did experience different treatment as a student. “While on placement, it was suggested to me that I should get my hair cut as it was too long and needed a tidy up. I’m not sure if a female student would have been asked to do this.”

Turner believes there are huge benefits to having men work in occupational therapy. “Relationship problems, self-esteem issues and views on health can often be gender-specific,” he says.

“Men are often reluctant to talk about their problems... It can be easier for them to do so with a male practitioner. Also, occupational therapists often help men and women to re-engage with meaningful activities, and this can require an element of “doing” with clients. As a male occupational therapist I have assisted people re-engage in many activities including some that would be commonly engaged in by men such as football, wood crafts and DIY. While a female occupational therapist could have also carried out this work, I believe some male clients responded well to doing it with a male occupational therapist.”

“I can’t remember how many times other staff members have said to me it’s great to have a male SNA in the school, as it can give balance to the classroom. It is really important that children have positive male role models around them in a school setting. While the number of male SNAs is growing, you can never have enough

Cullen believes that seeing men involved in drama encourages boys to continue with it for longer. “I have noticed that a lot more of my male students keep up their drama classes into their teens, and I think it’s because they see a role model who has been able to continue a career in drama.”

iptba · 24-02-2023 1:28am

The term ‘fridget’ was around back when I was in school, but kids are still using it as an insult today

Bill Linnane

https://www.independent.ie/life/family/parenting/the-term-fridget-was-around-back-when-i-was-in-school-but-kids-are-still-using-it-as-an-insult-today-42353510.html

But this is masculinity; so much of the uglier side of it is generated by our need to fit in with other men. I’m not saying men can’t be toxic weirdos when on our own, but in packs we engage in behaviour towards the opposite sex that is largely motivated by our need to demonstrate to other men just how manly we are; it doesn’t matter if it’s cat calls from the scaffolds or bants from a gaggle of lads down the pub, we are often far worse in groups than alone.

This may be true to an extent. But yet again it is concentrating on the negative aspects of masculinity (towards the opposite sex).

iptba · 24-02-2023 3:07am

Not new, not from Ireland (unlike most of my recent posts) but I thought it was worth a mention:

Brauer College in Warrnambool makes boys apologise on behalf of their gender to female peers at school assembly

A mother has spoken about her horror after boys as young as 12 were forced to apologise for their gender at a school assembly.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/school-life/brauer-college-in-warrnambool-makes-boys-apologise-on-behalf-of-their-gender-to-female-peers-at-school-assembly/news-story/8ce7f85594ef3cbca4e9072d4126dec9

“He’s upset by it – he now has this misconception that everybody looks at him and males as predators or somebody wishing to do harm to someone in a sexualised manner – seriously, he’s 12.”

—-

One Snapchat post, understood to be by a male student at the school, also took aim at the assembly saying: “Today at Brauer they made every guy stand up and apologise to every girl for rape, sexual assault. so on.”

“Guys go through as much **** as girls do,” the post said.

iptba · 25-02-2023 2:37am

For what it is worth:

Female trolls — usually happily married mums — can be the worst offenders for misogynistic abuse

Tanya Sweeney

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“Later, [Andrea] Gilligan revealed that 95pc of the negative comments come from women — 95pc! “The bitching messages I receive, the majority of them are from women,” she has said. “In my view, people are more used to giving their opinion now publicly, and then they reckon everything’s a free-for-all. They reckon they can say whatever they want, to whomever they want.”

—-

In 2016, British think-tank Demos looked at 10,000 tweets over a three-week period from 6,500 unique users, and found that half of the misogynistic tweets were posted by women.

iptba · 28-02-2023 10:52pm

Jobs website Indeed will give 26 weeks’ paid leave to dads for first time

The benefit will replace maternity leave and will be given to all staff, regardless of gender

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/jobs-website-indeed-will-give-26-weeks-paid-leave-to-dads-for-first-time-42362214.html

iptba · 01-03-2023 1:52am

Gender pay gap widest in finance and construction sectors, report finds

Analysis revealed a mean gender pay gap of 12.6% across the organisations that published reports in December

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/02/28/gender-pay-gap-widest-in-finance-and-construction-sectors-report-finds

The PwC report examined the actions Irish companies are taking to improve their gender pay gap, and considered what companies should do to prepare for the future.

This is where the equality angle kicks in: companies are being pressured to discriminate against men from now on.

iptba · 02-03-2023 3:52pm

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags/items I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)

(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

I also threw in some other posts as I didn't want to post too frequently.

Nicola Sturgeon warned over plans for ‘feminist foreign policy’The first minister is determined to bolster Scotland’s profile and activities around the world, despite foreign policy being reserved to Westminster

#SaveWomensSports

Didn't trend but I thought I would mention:

Irish Independent e-mail bulletin:

Tribe ransom

Seventy tourists including women and children are being held hostage by a tribe furious at constant oil spills in their section of the Amazon Rainforest. The detained tourists include disabled people, women and children, believed to be from the US, Spain, France, the UK and Switzerland.

#AskHerToStand

#WomanFace

#VAWG

[=violence against women and girls]

women's hour

#WomenWontWheesht

#genderequality

#LetWomenSpeak

#WomenWontSubmit

#LabourLosingWomen

Didn’t trend but I thought I would mention

International Day Of #WomenInScience?

#MaternalImprisonment

Irish Penal Reform Trust @IPRT

Today IPRT is hosting an event launching our new report - Maternal Imprisonment in Ireland: A Scoping Study. The report examines the experiences of mothers imprisoned in Ireland & of their children, and makes recommendations to reduce the harm caused. #MaternalImprisonment

Twitter ad

We're seeking women from all professional backgrounds to join our rapidly growing association. Apply now to join the International Society of Female Professionals

https://twitter.com/isfpofficial/status/1601728454604505095?s=46&t=9B1pvftgYudxBZrla6Kd-w

Without greater equality in terms of unpaid work, greater gender equality in the labour market is unlikely to be achieved.

https://twitter.com/_ihrec/status/1611327241828421636?s=43&t=LUySo74MBYjHsOBG0l7XLQ

VSO Ireland

In Kenya, people are facing severe hunger due to extreme weather. Without urgent help, mothers cannot grow enough food to feed their children or earn a living. VSO volunteers teach women how to grow new drought-resistant crops. Donate €25 to help mothers feed their families.

https://twitter.com/VSOIreland/status/1618919952580231168?s=20&t=YHiVT4Dr46cIJgovgkTx_w

iptba · 04-03-2023 2:49am

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/eight-of-our-13-university-presidents-are-women-why-did-it-take-us-so-long-to-reverse-our-gender-bias-42367610.html

Eight of our 13 university presidents are women – why did it take us so long to reverse our gender bias?

—-

A recent HEA review reported significant progress on several levels since 2016, but said experience had not been uniform in relation to all indicators or across the higher education landscape.

It wants each institution to publish a gender equality action plan. It also wants a national strategy to address the precarious nature of academic employment.

They basically want discrimination plans.

It ends:

Maynooth president Professor Eeva Leinonen will discuss the changed landscape with her female colleagues at a conference in the university on Monday, March 6. She said the universities of the future need a diversity of perspectives, missions and leaders.

An all-woman meeting. If it was deliberately all-male, there would likely be a furore.

iptba · 04-03-2023 3:07am

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/were-all-at-the-mercy-of-aggressive-male-drivers-but-my-n-plates-seem-to-bring-out-the-worst-in-them-42364825.html

We’re all at the mercy of aggressive male drivers, but my N-plates seem to bring out the worst in them

We don’t tend to see women talked about like this in national newspapers.

While there are doubtless careless and incompetent female drivers out there, it hasn’t escaped my attention that the aggressive, in-a-hurry-somewhere drivers I have encountered have been men. That’s just my own personal experience. I’ll leave you the statistic gathered last October by the British road safety charity Brake, that revealed male drivers are three times more likely to be in road collisions with pedestrians than women. The 2012 figures gathered by the Road Safety Authority in Ireland showed 5,575 male drivers were involved in fatal/injury collisions, compared to 2,816 female drivers that same year.)

People shouldn’t injure themselves and others on the roads. But those figures don’t show women are safer drivers: you need to control for distance travelled. Men tend to (i) drive more as a career (ii) commute longer distances with work and (iii) drive more when a male and female couple go out.

iptba · 06-03-2023 3:49am

I've seen but not read quite a lot of articles on women including lists of prominent Irish women past and present in advance of International Women's Day.

Here's one example:

The changemakers: Meet the women working to make Ireland a better place

https://www.independent.ie/life/the-changemakers-meet-the-women-working-to-make-ireland-a-better-place-42368384.html

We don't tend to see similar lists of "men working to make Ireland a better place"

getoutadodge · 08-03-2023 9:49am

The daily drip drip of malice from the feminazis..

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/men-arent-all-power-crazed-egotists-but-we-need-fewer-of-them-in-positions-of-power-42375482.html

iptba · 09-03-2023 2:15am

The above biased piece can be read for free here:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/international-womens-day-emma-thompson-iwd-embrace-b2296276.html

A famous man would risk being cancelled or at least affecting their career negatively for writing something like that in reverse

iptba · 09-03-2023 3:45am

Brianna Parkins: Yes to female CEOs, but I’m more interested in fair treatment for the women who allow us all to be here

It’s not right that people who work in essential, female-dominated industries are deemed to be worth less than unskilled construction labourers

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-style/people/2023/03/08/brianna-parkins-yes-to-female-ceos-but-im-more-interested-in-fair-treatment-for-the-women-who-allow-us-all-to-be-here

I'm not sure why it would be fairer if some occupations were paid more. Unless one lives in a very socialist or communist country, some jobs would be paid more than others. People focused on income will focus on the better paid jobs; people more focused on other factors may be willing to sacrifice some income for other metrics/aspects of a job. Men are less free I would argue to take lower paid jobs.

Sn@kebite · 14-03-2023 9:04pm

Anyone following the Eleanor Williams false rape accuser accusing multiple men (including Asian) men of grooming and trafficking her.

She bought a hammer to hit herself in the head and face to fake injuries. Also set up fake troll media accounts to send threats to herself. Crazy!

Celebs including Rachel Riley started campaigns and twitter feeds for her.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-64950862

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Ycp5yzAjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIYS0DUVKWM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBdb2NTZWuw

iptba · 15-03-2023 1:52am

Leo Varadkar told us on International Women’s Day, as the rest of us struggled with high gas bills and deciding who would mind the children if the snow shut schools.

“For too long, women and girls have carried a disproportionate share of caring responsibilities, been discriminated against at home and in the workplace, objectified or lived in fear of domestic or gender-based violence.”

From:

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/heres-why-i-will-be-voting-no-in-this-virtue-signalling-gender-equality-referendum-42382451.html

Leo is currently the Taoiseach. I don't think I've ever heard the Taoiseach say anything similar about men with regard to even one measure.

iptba · 04-04-2023 1:58am

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/pay-transparency-law-heralded-as-a-game-changer-in-fight-for-fair-wages-for-women-42415197.html

Pay transparency law heralded as a ‘game-changer’ in fight for fair wages for women

In addition, if an employer’s gender pay gap report shows a difference of at least 5pc, they can be asked to carry out a wage assessment.

There are also measures for victims of pay discrimination. They include compensation with full back pay.

Employers, rather than workers, will have to prove there was no discrimination in relation to pay. Sanctions will include fines.

I can see employers at least occasionally paying female employees a bit more than they otherwise might to try to reduce the chances they face trouble. Possibly also they may pay male employees a bit less for the same reason.

iptba · 06-04-2023 8:12pm

"In the context of the power of the sexes, and on a more observational and less theoretical level, Harrington writes of a medieval wife “more than holding her own” in a dialogue with her husband and notes that women have always had their own resources of social power, e.g.,

“The ethnologist Susan Carol Rogers supports this view in her study of power dynamics between men and women in agrarian communities…Rogers shows that in practice women in such communities wield considerable informal power, via channels such as control of information or the ability to inflict public loss of face.”

Quite. The reality of gender relations is that women often possess decisive social and moral power. Yet feminism has denied this as a cool strategy to have yet more power devolve to them – as recompense for their claimed powerlessness. The reality of the last 60 years is that a balance of power has been replaced by a crushing of men, wrought deliberately by feminism. I say again: this has to be acknowledged before reconciliation is possible."

From:

http://empathygap.uk/?p=4377

This is the first part of a review of Feminism Against Progress by Mary Harrington.

iptba · 08-04-2023 1:37pm

Why do so few women reach the top ranks of financial services?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/2023/04/07/sums-dont-add-up-for-women-at-top-ranks-of-financial-services/

Also contributing to the problem is that fewer women apply for senior roles. The Central Bank’s analysis shows that only 31 per cent of applicants for pre-approval controlled function roles within regulated firms were female, and only 28 per cent of applicants for board seats were women.

—-

with women more likely to apply for what the bank calls “second-line-of-defence roles” such as head of compliance or head of anti-money laundering.

—-

Where two candidates of different sexes are equally qualified, preference must be given to the candidate of the under-represented sex in companies where the target for gender balance is not being achieved.

—-

Companies must also disclose their qualification criteria should the unsuccessful candidate request it and must make a firm commitment to reaching gender balance among their executive directors. If they don’t, penalties (decided on by individual countries) will apply.

iptba · 09-04-2023 12:45am

Defence Forces members ‘practically defamed’ by abuse report, says representative group

Representative Association of Commissioned Officers said it ‘cannot simply allow all members to be tarred with the same brush’ by report’s ‘generalised language’

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/04/08/defence-forces-members-defamed-by-abuse-report-says-representative-group

Perhaps of interest

iptba · 13-04-2023 2:31am

Teaching is a job that suits parenting and given that women tend to take on most of the burden of parenting it is no surprise that women are so attracted to the profession.

But they still face barriers due to their sex.

Around 85% of primary teachers may be women but just two third of primary school principals are.

So even though men comprise fewer than 15% of teachers in the sector they account for a disproportionate one-third of all of principals in the sector.

There is a lot more work to be done.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0412/1376574-teacher-analysis

One would need to see the numbers that apply for post before deciding there is discrimination. I suspect a lot of women are put off by the longer hours of being a principal (I've heard women say this) while middle-aged men are often under pressure to earn more money and so be more willing to take on more hours for more pay.

Mens Rights Thread

Comments

Analysis revealed a mean gender pay gap of 12.6% across the organisations that published reports in December

Representative Association of Commissioned Officers said it ‘cannot simply allow all members to be tarred with the same brush’ by report’s ‘generalised language’