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DF Commission Report

145791016

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'd be surprised if it did not.

    Its a good fit overall, in the context of Ireland's overall size, external relations and military scope. Better than some of the other Depts it has been lumped it with down the years anyway.

    I have a suspicion that Michéal Martin may opt for FA & D as Tánaiste and that Coveney could replace Varadkar at Enterprise. O'Brien is staying at H,P&LG as we know and I can't see McEntee being moved sideways while still on Maternity leave.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    In the Defence review tyat was released it mentions the two extra medium helicopters and 8 super medium. Does that mean long term replacing the 139s with super mediums or keeping the 139 fleet with an extra 2 139s plus 8 new super mediums?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Yes thats what i taught but in the Defence Forces review 2022 on military.ie they have it worded as the following "2 extra medium lift helicopters and 8 super medium lift helicopters"

    Thats just reads slightly different



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    More than likely Leonardo will win the UK tender with the AW149 we could easily add on 10 aircraft and get a discount with the overall unit price.

    We could even through are lot in with the French H160m order but that helicopter might be to small for our needs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Why would the Irish military get a discount on the back of a UK order? If they do place a massive order, the only thing we'd get out of it is a lead time somewhere over the horizon.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The same reason as any bulk order the more you bulk order the more the unit price comes down.

    If we went this route our ordering team would have to fight the case that we get the helicopters in a reasonable time frame.

    Its being discussed here several times the advantages of ordering in bulk even Coveney has said we should be ordering with other nations. By the time the order is made the UK will be probaly back in the Customs union



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    A) We don't interoperate with Britain in any fashion like NZ does with Aus. Apart from them being our Air Force of course.

    B) We should indeed be bulking in with other Countries, but thats a future development on the PESCO model. Its feasible to cooperate with single or multiple EU partners, but not Britain. For many practical and political reasons.

    And I wouldn't hold your breath about them being back in the Customs Union anytime soon. Apart from there being no good reason why the EU should allow that without significant concessions, its a policy of neither the current GB Govt nor His Majesty's loyal opposition, aka the alternative government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    So do we think Mr Martin will bring any drive to the Commissions report?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Time will tell but I’m not expecting much from him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Certainly it will be the results by the end of the government that will decide whether he has been a good minister, however the other item that might have an influence is his time at the EUCO meetings since the war began, perhaps some “difficult” questions might have been raised on our limitations that might influence his engagement on Defence.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    He more than likely well step down in 18 months to allow a new FF leader in for the next election so hopefully in the 18 months he will do his best to get the commissions suggestions done



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Not a chance.

    18 months from now we'll only just have completed the talks about talks, the planning of the plan.

    And now is the time when the Northern Ireland question really gets into serious dealings. And thats on top of Ukraine.

    Yes, our UNSC term is over, but still, If I were to estimate the demands on his time over the next two years, I'd say 80% Foreign Affairs, 20% Defence, or less.

    The most important thing he can do is to keep the wick turned up under the DoD to get the enabling structures in place, put the change agents and new Command structure into legislation. That may very much depend on who is named as Minister of State for Defence. If its given to Hildegarde Naughton, in the same way as it was to Jack Chambers, then as Chief Whip too, she won't have the requisite time for it.

    I hope Varadkar and Martin have the sense to appoint a good MoS, with no other duties but Defence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    A come on Larbre some Postive taughts!

    Was there a Jnr Minister last time around?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Jack Chambers.

    He was Govt Chief Whip and Minister of State at the Depts of Fun, the Taoiseach and Defence. So there might as well not have been.

    I'll express some positive 'thoughts' when I see a reason to do so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Ah jesus lads i like jack he gave my local club some funding not so long ago.

    Thats mad i didnt cop he was jnr defence minister as well, i would have asked him a few questions



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I wonder did jack know that he had that role as well. Its easy to forget when you are giving money away and opening pitches and being told by everyone there on the day how wonderfull you are



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Well I can tell you he did not, because I sent on to him my suggestions, a good while back, for a strengthened reserve, modern national service model and third level ROTC and he responded to the effect that that had nothing to do with him, but would pass it on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The Irish Government? Surely not...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I see the department are hiring direct civillian apprentices for various trades. Have they decided it easier this way than getting to join the military as apprentices or have they always done this?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    So, An Taoiseach nua has appointed outgoing Minister of State for Housing, Peter Burke, to be Minister of State at Dept of the Taoiseach and at Foreign Affairs (Minister for European Affair in other words) and Minister of State for Defence.

    So of course that leaves less than no time for working on things Defence. Another indictment of these Government parties' attitude to the sector.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Minister why are re opening the barracks in Mullingar? Because i have being a minister for the last few years and i have to show to do something for the town or i might not get relected

    Edit: Oh no they forgot to tell peter he was also junior minister for Defence!

    https://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/2022/12/21/burke-pleasantly-surprised-with-new-role-in-europe/

    Post edited by roadmaster on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Well I see the Report popped up in someone's latest Q&A:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM1DRsHyl_Q&t=1693s



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Not that he's cynical or anything. Might want to change the timestamp to 1506 though



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    For the apc replacement do you think the Piranha V would be a good purchase?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    During the mini mini government shake up i was disapointed the government did not appoint a Super Jnr under MM to push on with the commission report



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I see the DOD are taking on Civilan Apprentices such as sparks and fitters.

    Is this just to speed up the available work force on equipment as they wont have to do military training



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Naval yard also. How does the chain of command work . Do they just report to a Sgt and call him by his 1st name




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Isn’t that been normal though? I mean my godfathers dad was a civilian working in the yard back in the corvette days, and there was an article in the Examiner I think last year regarding the workforce in the yard?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I know there has always being civilans in roles but in the current climate would you not want as many military trades as possabile that can serve over seas rather than 9 to 5 fitter who cant



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    In Submissions to the Commission if i remember correctly i think AGS made a submission about clarifying roles on national security. Did government say anything would be done on clearing up that issue?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    As far as I can see, they did not.

    In fact, the idea of AGS opining on national security matters in a public forum, is bonkers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    A very serious business! Almost bloody hopeless! Somebody needs to think outside the box here to find a solution. Maybe consider raising a regiment overseas, as other countries have done, EG. France, Spain, Britain Germany, the Vatican...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Sob 😭



  • Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    A good interview with the CoS on defence force podcast series there before Christmas. He touched on a lot of issues, but he sees the reforms as a medium term project inc recruitment/ retention. Not a huge level of specifics but and interesting overview perspective on the changes etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I know there is is still issues with T&Cs of service and hours worked but 37k is not bad starting pay. There is jobs out there that require a level 9 that dont start on that pay



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Its good to see these updates being fulfilled on time and keeping the process honest. Can't tell you how many times I've seen public sector plans left to drift with implementation not managed in any cohesive way.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The role of chief of defence is still with the AG . A lot of works seams to be going on to create this role.

    Office of Army Force Design, will this see a major transformation of the current Army?

    Its really good to see that the primary radar is being acted on, hopefully next year we will see a tender for it.

    Finland gets a few mentions in the report could the finish forces be the template they are going to use



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Isn't that the question he's asking though, will be structure be completely revised under the Plan? We know what the extant organisation is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Depends who you think might be hungry.

    I've no doubt, personally, that the professional military officers at general staff and senior operational command levels, will be only too delighted to be asked to expand the military against a benchmark of modern European fighting forces. Its what they have trained and studied for the last 30 or 40 years, while serving in a DF that was the poor relation to just about everything and everyone.

    I also think the ordinary ranks will embrace the opportunities for serious career advancement and earning potential, including more adventurous service overseas and in cooperation with other European forces. Not to mention the improvement in conditions and representation.

    At Government level, the buy-in appears to be strong and for Micheál Martin, like Coveney before him, there could be a great legacy in making the Navy and any future joint force presence in Cork Harbour into a major employer, centre of excellence and strong community pillar, just for instance.

    I believe the Sec Gen McCrum in DoD is strongly committed too and hopefully she has the leadership skills to bring the Department along with her, by phasing in increased resources and opportunities for the civilian element of the defence sector.

    Do you feel there is a weak appetite in a particular area?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The Role of over seeing Army Force Design is a tempoary role. We could see a recently retired general from another nation apply for the role with modern thinking



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Fair point.

    At least so far the Government pushed through the first of the big budget increases and procurement on some of the significant capital items.

    I guess we will see whether or not MM has the mettle to keep the pressure on Paschal and his mandarins to address the remuneration issues and hoover up the many small issues that need tackling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Talk is cheap but whiskey costs money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,845 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    RTÉ saying there is a tidal wave of awful allegations in the report.

    bullying and toxic culture

    assaults - physical, sexual, verbal

    rape

    katy Hannon on morning Ireland now tearing into the PDF



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    That would be a different report. See other thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    There is nothing like a strongly worded letter from county councillors to get things moving




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭sparky42


    And at the end of the day pretty much all the politicians think that is the sum value of the DF, local employment.



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