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Staff Shortages in Ireland.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You can kill people with bad trades work. Not so much with Greek.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Try getting a chemistry degree and let us how it compares with learning a trade.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,811 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    International students make up around 12.4% of the third level student population, according to the HEA, up from 10.3% in the previous academic year. Not a particularly welcome trend… you either increase class sizes and decrease the quality of education to accommodate them, or Irish tax paying citizens miss out.

    if jobs that need qualifications and qualified people yet we are not offering the places….

    That to me, for a country with a small population is several percentage points too high as regards international students based on the number of third level places available..

    id understand to a point if it was just EU and there were other nations reciprocating…at the same level… in one African country I’m reading about there are only 194 international students. There are more then 194 in each University here 🙂

    so we should be ensuring a conveyor belt of educated people to enter our workforce. And employers should offer wages commensurate to the necessary skills and aptitude required of the employee…



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Lol. Are chemistry students run ragged on building sites. Do they have to travel to a different site every week and pay for the privilege. Are they working from 7am til 6pm 5 days a week, in all weather's? Does their professor treat them like crap, get them to run errands and frequently put them in physical danger working at heights? Are they so physically tired at the weekends from working they sleep till 3?


    Because let me tell you that is the life of an electrical apprentice. Of course I didn't stay working as a spark or study chemistry, but I did go on to do a comp sci degree and went into IT so it's not a million miles off from studying chemistry.

    Now how many chemistry grads does Ireland need to solve the housing crisis, verses apprentices?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭GSBellew


    This is part of the problem right here.

    We as a country are educating people to a high level for a very low cost to those people, a mere fraction of the cost, who are then free to leave the country and benefit from the education provided by the country by earning wages off the back of this education in lower tax countries without contributing back into the economy of the country that funded their education.

    Ignore the cost of accomodation, we all have to deal with that, people should not be able to escape the cost of their education.



  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭babyducklings1


    Keep key workers in Ireland then. Prioritise them for accommodation graduate doctors, nurses, teachers , etc As things stand very high rental costs coupled with the sheer difficulty of finding accommodation, as in queuing for hours to view a house for rent, submitting references etc. then perhaps ( and very often) being turned down due to the huge volume of people seeking to rent that same house , It’s crazy. No wonder they leave here or are considering leaving, we should be making it easier for them to stay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Many people working in construction love working outside and would hate being at a desk all day in the same location for years. Hate administration prefer physical work.

    IT is nothing like chemistry.

    You need the money from chemists to pay for the houses.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,894 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Jesus, that’s not what I was saying at all.

    Thats a bit of a nationalistic point of view as well. We do educate to a pretty high standard but why should someone not be able to leave? Not every highly educated Irish person leaves either, and not every one of them go to low tax countries, I’m in Canada, BC and it’s insanely expensive as well, average house price comes in over a million dollars, or around €750,000. That includes condos and townhomes, not traditional homes.

    Do you think charging people for their education more would actually stop them leaving?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Considering Ireland punches above its weight internationally in many industries due to our own immigration and working abroad. It's double standards to suggest we won't facilitate others to do the same.

    Colleges are businesses. They run courses to make money. They are not there simply to churn out worker for the domestic economy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Some of the charities are trying to hire people off the dole

    They're putting them on schemes where they get the dole money and are expected to drive for free

    That's the other side of the coin , the low pay on offer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You're trying to equate an apprentice with a fraction of the study and education qualifications working in an industry with poor reputation of non adherence to regulations with a chemistry graduate 4 years of full time study working in highly regulated regime.

    It's an inane comparison.

    If you can't handle the oversight of a trade and the safety requirements you have no concept of what happens in other industries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,462 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Community employment

    There's loads of charities at it , costs them nothing basically to employ people

    The profits then can be paid to the head honchos , directors etc



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'Taxi Drivers - Over regulated industry to keep fares high.'

    The fares have to keep up with fuel inflation remember.

    Many taxi drivers retrained because of lockdowns.

    So taxi drivers got hit with the Covid-Ukraine double whammy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Taxi shortage would be solved overnight by allowing Uber and Lyft to operate here the way they do in many countries around the world. Spot on, good post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,462 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    So you're happy to have unregulated, unvetted drivers picking up our drunken teenagers and our barely dressed daughters and sisters after their nights out and driving them where? You're happy to unregulated, unvetted, untrained drivers picking up people with disabilities, or more likely, turning them away and ignoring them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    You tell me why is it that an apprentice can only learn how to change a piece of a motor, or fit a piece of a stairs, by being in a local garage or a customers house, and not in a training facility/classroom.

    What is the strange reason that one can learn Greek, or chemistry in a classroom. But not how to repair a dented door panel.

    Do you have a theory as to why that might be?

    Heres mine; a low paid, low knowledge, young, dependant, eejit is needed for all the shyt jobs, that the 'time served' business owner doesnt like to do.

    Which funnily enough lines up perfectly with what one commenter above said of his time as an apprentice.

    Maybe thats why we dont have people entering the trades, because nobody wants to be treated like a clueless and undeserving piece of sht on and off, until theyve 'served their time'.

    Train them in the clasroom first. Then they can 'serve time' as a skilled worker. With exams behind them. Cut out the time they waste being used as someones skivvy, brushing floors or getting breakfast rolls.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Ah that classic argument.

    I've used Uber in several countries, never an issue. The drivers are all identifiable on the app, the cars are in excellent condition, spotlessly clean, and poor drivers are quickly identified and can be removed from the system by bad ratings from the users.

    There is also an excellent safety feature in Uber where your journey details can be provided to an emergency contact, with estimated time of arrival and also the driver's and car's details.

    Then there's additional security in that the app will contact your emergency contact in the event that your journey takes longer than expected, or if your journey ends somewhere that isn't your specified destination (happened me on a recent trip in the US where I asked the driver to let me out about 50metres from where I specified in the app).

    As opposed to numerous taxis in Dublin where several drivers use the same car and fold down the driver's identity card and you have absolutely no idea who is driving you.

    Also I'm not sure why you're commenting on people being disabled or barely dressed, what does that have to do with Uber?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    One charity I worked with had I think 2 paid staff a cleaner and secretary

    The rest are all on ce schemes costing nothing

    Chief exec reputedly on 250k



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,894 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Because the taxi drivers we have now are highly trained, moral, and head and shoulders above the average Uber driver…give me a break.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,084 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    You may learn to fit a door or repair a motor in a classroom. And people do - I've been in the local ETC training facility with its row of doors.

    But you don't learn about customer service, or teamwork or dealing with things that go wrong. You don't develop stamina, or test if you can handle the smelly bits of working with sewerage or the physical challenges of wiring a building.

    People who leave college with degrees have the theoretical basis. They still need substantial training in how things are done in the real world - an in particular that achievin 50% (ie just passing) isn't worth a sh*t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    What you are suggesting isn't possible. How do you prioritise someone for housing based on their profession? Yes, we need graduate doctors, nurses, teachers etc. But we also need binmen, childminders, blocklayers etc. Are you suggesting asking people in a queue to view an apartment what their profession is and if they aren't on the 'list', they get told to sod off?

    I know people say that nurses, doctors, teachers, gardai are key workers but if all the lorry drivers in the country went on strike, you'd soon discover what a key worker is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The apprenticeship system does have classroom and practical sections. Many college courses also have work experience and practical sections.

    If you have crap employer that's a different issue. But if you don't like the practical side and manual aspect of a trade. You've picked the wrong career.

    We've all been the dogsbody or gofor on a site or in an office starting out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If it's a priority occupation it will get paid more. If it's not paid more then it's not a priority.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Yeah, and it has the pattern of classroom and practical sessions patterned in such a way that it makes for a skivvy and king relationship. Hence you 'serve time' as a sort of indentured slave.

    So we are left we a few questions.

    - How does it feel to be the douchebag gofor, the dogsbody.

    - Who needs who more. The whinging public, or the young lad considering a trade against many other options.

    - Are we going to fix our lack of trades by offering the young the opportunity to be low paid and second class until we deem them to have served their sentence, and been used as cheap labor.

    - How old is this system, and has it moved with the times.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6 A delusional apparition.


    Do a bit of homework pal.. trades have both practical and theory lessons and in my 30+ years on the float in Eire, I can say with confidence that the few people I’d label a genius are usually those that did apprenticeships because in their own unique way they usually excel at working with their hands.

    I detest the assumption that anybody who does LCA or a trade is not smart, if we didn’t have folks like them we’d all live in squalor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    That's not the point I was replying to. Of course doctors will get paid more than childminders etc. I never stated anything different.

    The post I was replying to was suggesting prioritising doctors, nurses, teachers etc. for accommodation which I think is a suggestion that I can't see working.

    You can of course prioritise the doctors and nurses etc. by charging really high rents that childminders and cleaners can't pay but doctors would be able to pay but that's pretty much the system we have now and that's not working.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    If you don't like career you've picked either choice or by poor choices to this point. Are not willing to start on the bottom rung or do the grunt work to get off the bottom ladder.

    Start your own business and work for yourself. If you don't like the system. Don't be in it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Yeah. And hows that system working out for us.

    Customer service my hole. Have you spoken to a tradesman lately. You should be so lucky that theyd lower themselves to speak to a customer. Let alone turn up for the job.

    Old world thinking. We still see these professions as second rate to professions which dont involve manual aspects. We still think of fresh apprentices as prey.

    And now we moan about a lack. And now those who we treated as gofors and douchebags rightly tell us theyll be at our place a month from now, maybe, before just blowing us off.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,232 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    There has been an awful shortage of dwarves coming up to Christmas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    There's good and bad people in every career and industry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    And they wont.

    Not under these terms.

    And we'll continue to whinge about a lack of trades.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭Star Bingo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It is working. If you can't get staff the industry will self correct eventually.

    We've just got a govt that refuses to stop overheating the market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    It isn't working. People in trades/professions are leaving the country here because they can't afford to get housing, especially in areas like Dublin. This is leading to staff shortages here.

    If you can't get staff in professions like doctors, people die. It's not really an option to wait for the industry to self correct - eventually.

    What can the government do to lower rents/house prices?



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0




  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭babyducklings1


    Right put lorry drivers in there, yes I’d absolutely agree they are key workers as are shop staff, etc and other workers you mentioned. In England they have housing for key workers . We are in an absolute mess now and have chancers throwing away their documents on arrival at Dublin airport and they expect to be housed too . Any young person who can’t get sorted here accommodation wise is going to leave and who could blame them , yet these are the very people we need to keep our country functioning. Rinse and repeat!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Ahahahahahaahahahah.


    Heres a taxi driver convicted of sexual assault in the cab, back on the roads days after after conviction:

    "Gardaí have waited until a driver's SPSV (Small Public Service Vehicle) licence is up for renewal, and that only then the application may be refused on the basis that the person is not fit to drive a taxi.In the case of Kusika Kudia, his licence is not up for renewal until July 2023".


    So who do the regulations protect, the public or them???


    As we all know, our current taxi drivers are all very respectable people who definitely aren't over-represented by convicted criminals as drivers, and of course they always pay their tax...


    Meanwhile uber has live driver ratings, shows the charge of the journey before getting in the car and fires drivers who get bad passenger reviews.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Third world transport system in Dublin and no uber etc, great combination



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Not a chance.

    More accommodation at an affordable price will help stop some of the staff shortages in areas such as rent pressure zones.

    We also need to train more tradies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭NiceFella


    I applied for them a while back. So rediculously outdated the forms are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I'm not joking when I say I spent the best part of two days filling in one of those application forms. The effort was worth it though, I got the job.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Ironically all you've done is whinge.

    I suggested people going and doing something else if they are unhappy. But some people will not happy working at anything. Maybe become a critic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Well Im not alone.

    (**Looks at thread title**)

    Lets keep doing the same things and expecting different outcomes.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    if you live long enough you'll see this is cyclical. We had this same shortage in the celtic tiger. Then over supply and everyone left. Now we want them back again. This is why generations of Irish left following the building work around the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    It's not always as simple as suggesting that someone go and do something else if they are unhappy. Especially when you have financial commitments such as a mortgage or a family. Supposing I was unhappy in my job and wanted to go back and train to be a blocklayer. Totally impossible for me because I couldn't pay my mortgage and survive on first, second, or even third year apprentice wages no matter how hard I worked.

    But I agree with you, some people won't be happy working at anything.



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