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Staff Shortages in Ireland.

Jinglejangle69

So we have staff shortages in

Doctors

Nurses

Gards

Teachers

Commission of Utilities

Bus Drivers

Plumbers

Electricians

Labourers

Chefs

Hospitality

Taxi Drivers

Childcare

I am sure there is more i am missing. It hasn’t always been like this?

We are constantly told by politicians we are a rich country and extremely lucky.

Why the shortages? Surely it’s not sustainable and we can already see it’s bringing down the standards and reputation of our “first world” country status.

Will things get any better?

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[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006224#Comment_120006224

Taxi shortage would be solved overnight by allowing Uber and Lyft to operate here the way they do in many countries around the world. Spot on, good post.

growleaves

'Taxi Drivers - Over regulated industry to keep fares high.'

The fares have to keep up with fuel inflation remember.

Many taxi drivers retrained because of lockdowns.

So taxi drivers got hit with the Covid-Ukraine double whammy.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006631#Comment_120006631

Community employment

There's loads of charities at it , costs them nothing basically to employ people

The profits then can be paid to the head honchos , directors etc

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006620#Comment_120006620

What schemes are you referring to here?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006270#Comment_120006270

You're trying to equate an apprentice with a fraction of the study and education qualifications working in an industry with poor reputation of non adherence to regulations with a chemistry graduate 4 years of full time study working in highly regulated regime.

It's an inane comparison.

If you can't handle the oversight of a trade and the safety requirements you have no concept of what happens in other industries.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002577#Comment_120002577

Some of the charities are trying to hire people off the dole

They're putting them on schemes where they get the dole money and are expected to drive for free

That's the other side of the coin , the low pay on offer

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006276#Comment_120006276

Considering Ireland punches above its weight internationally in many industries due to our own immigration and working abroad. It's double standards to suggest we won't facilitate others to do the same.

Colleges are businesses. They run courses to make money. They are not there simply to churn out worker for the domestic economy.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006276#Comment_120006276

Jesus, that’s not what I was saying at all.

Thats a bit of a nationalistic point of view as well. We do educate to a pretty high standard but why should someone not be able to leave? Not every highly educated Irish person leaves either, and not every one of them go to low tax countries, I’m in Canada, BC and it’s insanely expensive as well, average house price comes in over a million dollars, or around €750,000. That includes condos and townhomes, not traditional homes.

Do you think charging people for their education more would actually stop them leaving?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006273#Comment_120006273

Many people working in construction love working outside and would hate being at a desk all day in the same location for years. Hate administration prefer physical work.

IT is nothing like chemistry.

You need the money from chemists to pay for the houses.

babyducklings1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006276#Comment_120006276

Keep key workers in Ireland then. Prioritise them for accommodation graduate doctors, nurses, teachers , etc As things stand very high rental costs coupled with the sheer difficulty of finding accommodation, as in queuing for hours to view a house for rent, submitting references etc. then perhaps ( and very often) being turned down due to the huge volume of people seeking to rent that same house , It’s crazy. No wonder they leave here or are considering leaving, we should be making it easier for them to stay.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002740#Comment_120002740

This is part of the problem right here.

We as a country are educating people to a high level for a very low cost to those people, a mere fraction of the cost, who are then free to leave the country and benefit from the education provided by the country by earning wages off the back of this education in lower tax countries without contributing back into the economy of the country that funded their education.

Ignore the cost of accomodation, we all have to deal with that, people should not be able to escape the cost of their education.

purifol0

Lol. Are chemistry students run ragged on building sites. Do they have to travel to a different site every week and pay for the privilege. Are they working from 7am til 6pm 5 days a week, in all weather's? Does their professor treat them like crap, get them to run errands and frequently put them in physical danger working at heights? Are they so physically tired at the weekends from working they sleep till 3?

Because let me tell you that is the life of an electrical apprentice. Of course I didn't stay working as a spark or study chemistry, but I did go on to do a comp sci degree and went into IT so it's not a million miles off from studying chemistry.

Now how many chemistry grads does Ireland need to solve the housing crisis, verses apprentices?

20Wheel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006263#Comment_120006263

Obvious non-sequitur/deflection.

Lame.

Strumms

International students make up around 12.4% of the third level student population, according to the HEA, up from 10.3% in the previous academic year. Not a particularly welcome trend… you either increase class sizes and decrease the quality of education to accommodate them, or Irish tax paying citizens miss out.

if jobs that need qualifications and qualified people yet we are not offering the places….

That to me, for a country with a small population is several percentage points too high as regards international students based on the number of third level places available..

id understand to a point if it was just EU and there were other nations reciprocating…at the same level… in one African country I’m reading about there are only 194 international students. There are more then 194 in each University here 🙂

so we should be ensuring a conveyor belt of educated people to enter our workforce. And employers should offer wages commensurate to the necessary skills and aptitude required of the employee…

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006259#Comment_120006259

Try getting a chemistry degree and let us how it compares with learning a trade.

20Wheel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006257#Comment_120006257

Yeah. How about fcking Chemistry.

Flinty997

You can kill people with bad trades work. Not so much with Greek.

20Wheel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006218#Comment_120006218

Why would the govt constantly involve themselves over the years with someone learning to fit pipes, but not someone learning history or Greek or human resources management, or physiotherapy, or radiography.

Did you hear of the banking scandal? Why would anyone object to finance students being beholden to govt monitoring and private businesses throughout their course.

You go to the classroom and learn to make chemical compounds, why can't I go to the classroom and learn to weld a bumper. Without the need to involve myself with a business for 6 months at a time and have the govt monitoring me.

If you can pass the exams you can do it - be it Greek or Accounting or Carpentry. No need for any monkey business with private employers and govt.

Big Gerry

For a lot of low paid jobs people are better off on the dole.

Some people can make 50k a year on the dole tax free if they are claiming multiple benefits.

purifol0

Teachers - oops left this one out. Pop quiz, why are the teachers that are two a penny like English teachers, paid the same as in demand & far rarer Math & physics teachers???

Surely if theres not enough of them, pay could be raised for those in demand and lowered for those who are surplus....oh right yeah public sector unions would oust any govt that dared improve things for the pupils if it meant their ridiculous pay,pensions & terms & conditions and holidays should ever be changed for the worst. They'll happily take more of your taxes though, and give you the poor mouth whilst doing so.

For as long as public sector workers votes have the same weight at the ballot box as taxpayers votes, this situation will not change.

Is it really democracy when those who pay for everything get the same say as those who take from them?

Would working parents let their dependent children have the same say of the household budget?

purifol0

Some big brain thinking by the OP here. Maybe do a bit of research.

Doctors - a shortage eh, well lets see how many do we train a year? Answer: <200, and half are foreign students who immediately move abroad after their junior doctor stint.

Nurses: actually we have zillions, AND we pay them to train (tough **** every other type of student), the whining of course is because the INMO is the most powerful public sector union in the country.

Not enough Gardai? Well apart from all the desk jockeying the issue is not enough jail spaces for the repeat offenders. And of course state & EU sexist hiring policies meaning Ireland police force is now gender quota-ing its way to having "on the beat" male Gards having to protect their female Garda partners during arrests. As if the physical requirements weren't low enough already FFS.

Plumbers, Electricians, Labourers - Yeah construction & trades, the Irish men needed to build the country were treated so badly during the 2008 recession they left, and were encouraged to do so by the state. Now they are desperately needed again to build houses for a country that insists on pushing expensive university places over trades to its youth, while importing an unlimited no. of refugees, nearly all women and children and thus utterly dependent on state supports.

There are 100,000 men in the construction industry, what % of them are Irish anymore eh?

Hospitality - **** pay, uncertain long term prospects, not public sector so no chance of the govt giving a **** unless you own a hotel.

Taxi Drivers - Over regulated industry to keep fares high. Lots of people own and can drive cars however Taxi drivers have effectively got the govt to over regulate this industry to the point that ordinary folk cannot simply drive for Uber or their many competitors despite the fact the GPS enabled smartphones have reduced the barrier to entry. Imagine having to do a separate license and exam to be a pizza delivery driver??? And of course how long did it take for the state to make pay by card a legal right for the customer eh?

Childcare - boils down to houses being unnaffordable on 1 persons salary and so two parents need to work.

Chefs - Ireland is indeed a rich country and a lot of people (usually women, often retired public sector) love to eat well and eat out. Hence the demand.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006054#Comment_120006054

No ones entering it because the industry collapsed after the crash and never recovered. When you consider all the scandals with building standards and regulations and developers. Why would anyone object to some sort of checking on the trades?

20Wheel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006045#Comment_120006045

Did I say a grand a week?

If you'd actually fking read you'd see I wasn't suggesting any pay whatsoever. Same as any other course for the most part.

"An apprentice is not a cheap worker - well sometime she has to be that too". Well which is it?

Nonsense post.

20Wheel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006022#Comment_120006022

Theres nothing incorrect in my post.

And I know the system in use. Hence the first fking line.

And yes I have an axe to grind because I could have chosen a trade at several points but didn't because of the meddling restrictive design.

Does someone on a computer science course, or an optometry course have to rotate into a private business? And have govt looking over their shoulder.

I mean they're only going to be dealing with databases and peoples eyeballs.

Its the guy installing pipes we have to watch. And funnily enough ... and this is pure coincidence, I promise. He has to be kept on sht money initially and be beholden to a business owner.

Why is nobody entering the trades. hmm.

CalamariFritti

@20Wheel

Bull

How much do you think a 16 year old who can barely tell a screwdriver from a volt meter, should be paid - a grand a week?

An apprentice is not a cheap worker - well sometime she has to be that too - but someone who is learning a trade for life and getting paid for it. Those rates don't look bad to me at all tbh.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005992#Comment_120005992

Apprentices rotate through phases of classroom training to work experience.

Some university courses are the same where you may spend 6-12 months on work experience.

Apprentices are paid during their training from about 300-500 a week, though it's been a while since I looked at the rates.

A lot of your post is factually incorrect and it seems you have an axe to grind.

20Wheel

that apprenticeship path looks like bollox.

maybe the reason we lack tradespeople is that theres a learning system which is using the new entrants as cheap labor.

you can go learn theory over 3/4+ years for university science qualifications without actually ever being employed in the field, upon qualifying you'll go and apply your mad scientist level learning to multi million euro industrial output which acutely affects lives.

so why can you not do the same with plumbing, or mechanics. Go to a technical college for 2 years, learn and practice the theory in class. and then out into the field in the same manner as the science graduate ... the scientist who is doing way more complex stuff, with way higher stakes.

is it because the apprenticeship scheme is a handy way to fuk over the young, and make monkeys out of them.

before turning around and saying boo hoo we lack tradespeople, why wont they just be our slaves for a pittance over an extended time.

why are the govt poking their nose in here. if you learn something and pass the exams then you have the knowledge to do the job, why is it ok for one person to be in uni for 4 years (as their own private person) before walking out the gate and taking part responsibility for the production of volatile chemicals or medicines.

yet the other person (doing work with less potential widespread consequences) must be tied to a private business with govt monitoring over 4 years, before being allowed to take responsibility for fixing a leaky radiator.

if its a matter of quality control then fair enough, that can be dealt with, make it 6 months monitoring. 6 months tied to a previously qualified tradesperson, as a post-qualification worker. or even a year.

rather than the current king-servant design, unqualified uneducated young worker providing cheap labor to the established business. all the time under the watchful eye of govt. progressing only at a set speed to a set pattern. its not about your ability, its about your time served. aka your sentence.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058275990/staff-shortages-in-ireland

Why the shortage?

Our economy and population have grown massively over decades.

This is the good times. Well except the housing crisis and the shortages. No time is perfect.

[Deleted User]

Ireland's gone through boom-bust-boom cycles and has an economy that's heavily tilted towards a small number of sectors and has a housing shortage, which is largely a hangover from the 2008-12 crash, which isn't that long ago.

FF and FG seem to think that the magic forces of the market will just solve this automatically - doesn't look likely but also it's unrealistic to think it'll be solved quickly. It won't. So I think this is going to be a mess for years.

Economically we've more in common with some of the tech boom cities in the US than with a lot of Europe - rapid booms, with no time for infrastructure to catch up but also with relatively laissez faire attitudes to housing and little or nothing being done in the public side of housing provision.

Also, the funnelling of rent allowances into the private sector, instead of building social housing, has effectively turned into a revenue stream for a lot of people in a way it should never have been.

We plan all of our infrastructure too small, and then have to expand it - health, transport, housing etc too.

Faugheen

Roaring laughing at the idea that people are leaving because of Eamon Ryan.

Literally didn’t happen of the year awards.

Or, let’s take it on its merits, and assume that it is because of him. Where are they going to go? Australia?