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Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭EchoIndia




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    Yeah I think the Defense Forces now is fine for our needs, i think if anything money would be better spent on paying them a proper wage and retaining experienced soldiers rather than jets, upgrading the navy maybe too seeing as they protect our fishery's and stop smuggling ect.

    But do we need fighter jets? no can we get by without them? yes and we have proven for decades that not having them is no issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    They are the Airliner of choice for the imaginary Hijackers we need our squadrons of jets to fend off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    You didn't answer the question I put. How different is the level of threat to those other countries to that faced by Ireland?



  • Posts: 52 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We need to think outside the box here lads. How about just pretending to buy fighter jets and instead making rubber decoys instead? The instructions from the Hasegawa 1/72 F-16 and Italeri 1/48 Gripen, instructions the posters on this thread are familiar with, would be ideal templates. Maybe a 3D printer could be used for making resin cockpits.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    Belgium, Denmark and the Netherlands are all founding member's of NATO...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,751 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Might be a good idea to distract any attackers from the real ones? oh wait..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,751 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    A few jets could do more than intercept the odd Russian or stray jet. They could get eyes on a suspicious ship way out to sea in a very short time. Also they could be used on UN missions to support our regular army or naval forces.

    Even a token modern defence force should have a few supersonic jets the cost need not be in the Billions either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭sparky42


    The regular reminder that a much smaller Ireland with a tiny economy in comparison spent over 1% on defence for years without any major issue, also the reminder that said similar level of spending would provide pretty many of the elements of a modern DF capable of meeting the needs of the nation for most eventualities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,758 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Our location between the two main passages into the north Atlantic from Europe, in a resource and infrastructure heavy environment, makes us just as vulnerable as those countries. Just different vulnerabilities.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    We also got by without Fighter Jets for decades and nothing has suddenly happened to justify the sudden urgency in purchasing them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    Great now can you explain how those threats would consistently get to there "targets" here in Ireland?

    It's very hyperbolic when you say that sort of stuff but when you get down to the nuts and bolts of how they would do it, thats where your theory of "vulnerable" falls apart.

    Give us an example of who and how they would attack us consistently... ill give you a pass on the reasoning behind said attacks, just who and how.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,471 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    Can people stop entertaining the troll please



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,758 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    I knew that already. But never mind, this is a pointless exchange.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    Sure you did lmao you made yourself look proper silly with a nonsense comparison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    Are you a mod or pretending to be one? don't think you can tell people what do on this thread as you've no authority, further more just because someone has a difference of opinion to yours doesn't classify them as a troll, you've been on this thread for over 5 years now and your only contributions to it is to bash other posters.

    If you arent willing or able to debate the points being made then at least stop derailing the thread by attacking posters and trying to brand them as trolls simply because you lack the capacity to debate them in a factual civil manner



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    Don't confuse people declining to engage further with your having secured some kind of "victory" here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    Great to see you've recovered from the shock of learning that Denmark, Belgium and Netherlands are all in NATO... any other matter's you'd like me to educate you on?

    When you are put to the question and have to run or conveniently "decline to engage further" rather than address it you are beaten and soundly beaten.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Unless you count the number of blank posts per page...

    God bless the Ignore function.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    Never seen so many people so insecure in there own views that they have to label anyone that says Ireland doesn't really need fighter jets as a troll and a radical 🤣🤣

    He disagrees with us! Ban him ! Block him! Quick! 🤣🤣

    I'd love to know the tactic when ye have someone that doesn't agree with ye in the real world... Stick yer fingers in yer ears and start yelling lalalalal till they go away? Is it? 🤣🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭source


    The issue is not that you have an opinion that is opposed to fighters. The issue is that the conversation about need has been had, and concluded, with the outcome being that the need is there.

    The conversation has now moved on to requirements, suitability and funding. Your opinion that fighters are not needed runs counter to the Minister of Defence, The Department of Defence, The CODF and The Air Corps, not to mention all the other Western European countries who can see Ireland is a gaping hole in the defence of Western Europe.

    I have no doubt you'll have some comeback, or reason that all these organisations who have responsibility for the defence of our nation are wrong, and you're right. But that is the very reason other posters are deciding to tune you out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    Do provide sources that say we are absolutely getting jets, id imagine the "funding" part will be very interesting and a significant counter weigh to the "need" proposed by our supposed war fighting experts.

    Again in what way is Ireland a "gaping hole" and whos attacking us and how? the fact that not one of you can answer this is proof enough that this whole concept is utter hyperbolic nonsense to encourage spending billions on jet's yes that's right folks your fighter jets and all that come with them will run bills into the BILLIONs, this idea that we'll have a few of the cheapest jets on a shoe string budget and wont still be the "gaping hole" in western defense is laughable.

    So many flaw's in the logic of all this it's ridiculous start to finish. I think sense will prevail and this idea will be let fizzle out and die hopefully we pay enough tax it should be spent better than on the kneejerk notion's of defence "experts" that have never seen combat let alone full scale war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭source


    Do provide a quote from my post where I said we were definitely getting fighters. I think you'll find I didn't say that, so I won't try to defend to you a position you've tried to ascribe to me.

    May I say, are very adept at attempting to move the goalposts, then arguing the new position. It's tactics like this which are getting you labelled a troll.

    Ireland is a gaping hole in the defence of Western Europe because we have been underfunding defence for decades. The CODF clearly outlines the issues with defence in Ireland. Your opinion on the CODF doesnt change their findings or the beliefs of the organisations tasked with our defence.

    My opinion on this matter is built on decades of thought and some first hand knowledge of our Air Defence capabilities. I'm not going to try to defend that opinion to you as you strike me as someone who will stick rigidly to an opinion, no matter what the evidence says.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    Here's your qoute

    "The issue is that the conversation about need has been had, and concluded, with the outcome being that the need is there.

    The conversation has now moved on to requirements, suitability and funding."

    Unless of course you are saying the conversation has in fact not been concluded and there is still plenty to discuss, the above quote implies a certainty and states a conclusion of agreement where we are in fact buying fighter jets.. which is it?

    I find it amusing when people say such hyperbolic things like " We are the gaping whole in western Europe's defence" who exactly is relying on us for defence ? a gaping hole to where? fairly sure the UK has the entire region under control with or without us.

    Please enlighten us as to what this hole in the western defence is and why is there a sudden urgency to defend it and why are we being relied upon to do a role that is apparently ultra critical to the survival of western Europe.. also... who exactly is this so called "threat" to western europe all of a sudden..??

    Its great saying their is this imaginary chink in the armor but it has no depth in reality. I find it very odd and worrisome that so called experts are stating these things... So far you have produced 0 evidence for these claims nor has anyone else infairness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭source


    Indeed I did say exactly that, but I don't see where in that sentence you're pulling that I said it was a done deal.

    I said the conversation around NEED has been had. Now the conversation has moved on to suitability, requirements and funding.

    The point being, you're trying to drag us all back onto the need topic because you feel you know better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭Nighttime22


    No one is dragging anyone anywhere ye love the dramatics, this thread has been going for 5 or 6 years what's the purpose of the thread if new posters cant discuss all aspects of the topic because they will be bashed by a clique of posters who've been on this thread for 5-6 years and "know it all".. i think the people that have been here 5 + years need to just leave if they get offended by people with opposing view points or posters that bring up a topic they feel has been discussed.

    If your seeing the same topic over and over again maybe you've been here too long and don't really have any grounds for complaint ?

    You talk about moving goal posts but you completely avoided and side stepped points in my previous post we both know you cant answer..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,758 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Flawed logic he says!

    The whole ****ing point of maintaining appropriate armed forces is to PREVENT the conditions of an attack or violation from becoming possible. They are an insurance policy, not an assurance policy and one that sovereign States all over the World take very seriously.

    As recently as 2012, Ukraine and Poland co-hosted the Euros in 8 major cities across their full territories, including big matches in Donetsk and Kharkiv.

    Do you think the people who lived there, who enjoyed the warm summer weather and the curious visitors from all over Europe and the attention of millions on their old towns for a month, could have imagined in 2022 they'd be living in a freezing apocalyptic hellhole, shepherding millions of refugees, separated from family and impoverished due to lack of work, energy and supplies?

    **** away off now with your infantile contrarianism. Your skill as a polemicist is only paralleled by the nappied toddler spending his waking hours following his worn out mother around, asking 'but why....?'



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