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Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

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Comments

  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    The 34 single-deck electric buses for Dublin should all be delivered by December.

    The 100 double-deck electric buses for Dublin should all be delivered by early next year. Some may be delivered in December.

    Charging infrastructure is still a huge issue. Dublin Bus dropped the ball big time. Chargers likely won't be in place in Summerhill and Phibsborough until May. O route is currently due to begin operation in April.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Given the ongoing driver shortages, I wouldn't be holding my breath for any of the next implementation deadlines being met after the G-Spine.

    What about the 24 additional hybrids? Any sign of them being delivered?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    I was under the impression that they'd be delivered before the introduction of the W4/6, though given the issues and delays surrounding them, they may get delivered earlier in Phase 5



  • Registered Users Posts: 934 ✭✭✭d51984


    At least 10 new single deckers in Ardee, if anyones up near Airport Business park im told theres one up there.

    Its a disgrace Joe!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    Just saw PA245 on a 52. If I'm not wrong, that means that all PAs destined for DB have been delivered and are currently in operation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It’s likely that the follow on order of 24 mentioned above will be for DB too - they would cascade more vehicles to GAI as a result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭thomasj




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Looks like they have the camera mirrors set-up? Wonder will that be the case for the incoming electoliners as well. Will be interesting to see the exact spec they go for, probably similar to the PA interior however.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    An EW class has been spotted in the wild! Out for testing around the factory. According to the Tapatalk forums a few have been fast tracked to allow for training ahead of the main delivery. Interesting to note that actually have physical mirrors unlike the Electric single deckers.


    https://www.flickr.com/photos/70333100@N08/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Looks a bit like a PA and an SG had a baby. Can't understand why they went for actual mirrors as opposed to cameras given how often mirrors get broken off buses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    The Stealth front looks really nice on the Electroliner. I want to ask about what is going to be involved with the trialling and testing of these new buses in Dublin & Limerick. Are they going to be put on one route with each operator until the remainder of these buses in will get delivered in subsequent batches within the next few months etc?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Just a correction I spotted these buses do in fact have camera but can also be fitted with actual mirrors say if something goes wrong with the camera mirrors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    An offside view of one of the new Electroliners, confirming the addition of camera mirrors (taken from one of the FB groups)




  • Registered Users Posts: 934 ✭✭✭d51984


    I see on a FB group a lot of bus drivers giving out about the PA class, some even going as far as saying they are the worst bus they have ever driven. Hopefully these will be built around the driver.

    Its a disgrace Joe!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Could you tell a bit more, I wonder what exactly drivers find that they dislike about the PAs?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    For those not in the FB groups, interior shots of the Bus Eireann EAs were shared (https://www.facebook.com/groups/dublinbus/permalink/2078928365647249/ ) Some of the shots....

    Will be interesting using that nearside "mirror" with the glare of the perspex.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Update on this - today when passing Harris Autos on the Naas Road, I saw about 5-6 in the same livery parked up in the back of the yard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭whyulittle


    They don't outright say it, but the pictures show that this is the bus depot in Athlone.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Haven't kept up with this thread recently, so apologies if this is old news. 100 Electric buses to be delivered by Christmas.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Wonder what the breakdown is of those 100 buses. Obviously the EAs for Athlone are part of this, but what else?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    RIP AXs :(



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well whether they come into operation will depend on the charging infrastructure being in place, which I am not sure about!



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    May 2023 👀

    Edit: That's Dublin. Athlone will have chargers soon.

    Post edited by Peregrine on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    According to the Tapatalk forums, there was an EW spotted (not in service obviously) along the 44 route in Dublin, at both Enniskerry and DCU. Could be one of the routes used for training?



  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭ITV2


    The Second production EW Class Electroliner/Wrightbus for the the NTA is seen on experimental work in Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Supposedly out running the 47 route



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    Is this a sign that the first batch are to go to Donnybrook? Or is it simply to test out how it would fare on different streets of Dublin?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Not sure.

    Wouldn't mind if Donnybrook got em as that's my local garage 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Are those EW buses parked in Donnybrook or in Broadstone?



  • Registered Users Posts: 934 ✭✭✭d51984


    Are they using the mirrors or cameras or both? I take it that the bus above has gone to Ardee to be stored? Are the current PA class even been charged at present?

    Its a disgrace Joe!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    From what I've seen, the Dublin Bus bound EWs have traditional mirrors while the Bus Eireann bound EWs will have the cameras



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Not sure what routes they'd go on if Donnybrook got them as afaik the only route DB have that's getting them is the O route which I think is meant to be Summerhill and Phibsboro operated.

    The only Donnybrook route that might be suitable for them is the L25 or possibly the 44 and the 61 and/or their BC replacements. Unless their planning to get some short length single door electric buses to replace the WS on the 44b although the WSs are only 5 years old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    So the EWs are the Wright's Electroliner electric double deckers. You're thinking of the EAs, the ALX200 electric single deckers 😉

    But yes, I would imagine at some stage D'brook would potentially get one of the later batches of EAs to replace/compliment the WSs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,516 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Can't be legal to drive them here on a UK trade plate?!?

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Ce he sin


    That, or its twin, is on the 207 route in Cork city today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    It's not electric, its hydrogen - a fossil fuel (currently).



  • Registered Users Posts: 934 ✭✭✭d51984


    The new Wrights double deckers are electric. The three wrights deckers with Bus Eireann in Dublin are hydrogen


    Above : One of the 3 Hydrogen versions with Bus Eireann. (Notice how much better the front looks with the chrome Wright logo surround)

    Below : The Electric versions for Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann. (Photo Darren Hall)


    Its a disgrace Joe!



  • Registered Users Posts: 934 ✭✭✭d51984


    Interesting to note that its nearly a year since the three hydrogen buses were put in to service with Bus Eireann and in that time :

    • The buses have since delivered over 60,000 kilometres emission free, resulting in a reduction of 20,000 litres of diesel used and savings of over 50 tonnes of CO2 from tailpipe emissions

    That's just 3 double deck buses, imagine what a hundred could do.....

    Its a disgrace Joe!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    EA5 one of the centrepiece buses on display at the Alexander Dennis stand at the Euro Bus Expo






  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    It's not emission free, they are using fossil fuels (hydrogen). Just the emissions are made during electrolysis as opposed to at point of driving



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Would be nice to see these actual EV buses in service. I havent seen them yet anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 934 ✭✭✭d51984


    Its a disgrace Joe!



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    It is a bit more complicated then that.

    HEV buses produce no emissions at the tail pipe (other then water) and as such are considered zero emissions vehicles. Unlike Diesel vehicles they produce no PM's or NOX, which is very good news for the communities they travel through and for all our health (in terms of lung disease, etc.).

    Now in terms of greenhouse emissions, that is more complicated, it depends on how the Hydrogen is produced, just like it depends on how the electricity is produced to charge up an EV battery.

    Green Hydrogen, Hydrogen produced using renewable electricity like wind or solar is zero (or very close) green house gas. Same with EV batteries, if the EV battery is charged up by wind power then zero emissions, if charged when the gas and coal plants are running, then obviously has greenhouse emission.

    The advantage of Hydrogen and batteries is that as our electricity grid gets better over time, as we add more wind, solar, etc. then buses that use these batteries/hydrogen also get cleaner over time. Obviously something not possible with Diesel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 934 ✭✭✭d51984


    That's actually for Limerick to train drivers in on before the rest arrive, not sure why it took a detour to Cork though.

    Its a disgrace Joe!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I would love to hear some initial feedback on how the EW's have done on their recent route training trials on the 44 & the 47 with Dublin Bus.

    Has all the talk about their batteries making their bus more reliable a big feature of these trials? More importantly are the EW's more reliable than the PA's/PAL's?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭john boye


    They took one bus out on a couple of test drives and you expect them to have learned all that from it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,349 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    The energy efficiency of hydrogen is crap though.

    You use electricity to split water into hydrogen, then transport it, store it, then turn it back into electricity to run a car or bus.

    Just put that initial electricity directly into a battery. Hydrogen has a limited shelf life as a usable fuel for busses and cars. Batteries already dominate and will continue to do so.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I agree completely, where it is possible you should use batteries. However when you get to larger, heavier vehicles, longer distances and quick turnaround times, batteries, at least for the moment, just don't have enough performance and that is where you use Hydrogen.

    Aircraft, ships, big trucks will all likely need to use Hydrogen.

    EV buses make sense for city services, slow average speeds, frequent stopping, shorter overall distances, make them ideal for batteries.

    Commuting and intercity type services are a different story, long distances, infrequent stopping and motorway speeds, simply makes batteries not an option for them and hydrogen the only option.

    Of course over time, as battery technology get better, higher density, cheaper prices, faster charging, we may see them start to cut into some of these longer distance services, though it is likely to be a gradual transition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Alexander Dennis have released details of two more of their EV bus range. These new fuel cell electric buses are being built separately from the partnership between BYD and ADL.

    It is noted in the article above that Hydrogen models of these buses will be also planned to be offered to various bus operators in the near future.



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