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First Communion preparation to be moved out of classrooms.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    It’s a fair question.

    the answer is probably because the state over xxx years have been comfortable to allow these schools to provide education.

    im 100% behind a separation between church / religion and education but it would need to be across the board, no Catholic, no church of Ireland, no Muslim schools….



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Department of Education are still posting out paper payslips in 2022. The chances of getting them toscrualky divest 89% of the schools in the country is a pipe dream.

    https://www.newstalk.com/news/e11-million-spent-posting-teachers-payslips-1387776



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I can’t be certain, but I think the poster might be referring to people who’s religious beliefs prohibit them from using soap, and scientists investigating the phenomenon found there wasn’t much of a difference in terms of alternative methods effectiveness -


    Another interesting aspect may be to evaluate optional methods of hand cleansing which exist in some cultures according to deep-seated beliefs or available resources. As an example, in the Hindu culture, hands are rubbed vigorously with ash or mud and then rinsed with water. The belief behind this practice is that soap should not be used as it contains animal fat. If water is not available, other substances such as sand are used to rub the hands. In a scientific study performed in Bangladesh to assess faecal coliform counts from post-cleansing hand samples, hand cleansing with mud and ash was demonstrated to be as efficient as with soap.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143998/



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,796 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    There are no schools for people that thi k religion is the science of the people that didn't have soap

    Well get together with some local parents who think that, and set one up.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,057 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    But the religons would indeed leap at the chance to dictate to the state what to do, and allowing them access to children in their most formative years is a means to that very thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Hint: The Irish State wasn't in existence in the 19th Century.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,059 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Hint: your knowledge of Irish is so utterly, comically badly, incorrect you should really stop trying to post nonsense about it.

    All of the structures around these schools and hospitals predated the civil war that you seem to think is why they exist.

    They were all state - British state, but still state - funded in the late 19th century and have been funded by the sucessor state since. Absolutely none of the efforts they made were charitable, but entirely about control.

    You don't know what you're talking about, at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    I'll still go with "what?".

    Lost. So sand I can somewhat understand as an abrasive, but what's in the sand?

    Maybe I'm misremembering something I read but weren't clothes cleaned better from rendered fat from sacrificed humans that poured into the river...off to Google now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It’s not though, because merely by having access to children in their most formative years is not the same thing as religions having any authority in the affairs of the State. I’d be far more concerned about adults who are well beyond their formative years trying to induce fearmongering, prejudice and discrimination against other people in society who don’t conform to their standards, especially if those people were in Government. It’s for this reason I never need to be particularly concerned as they never do well in elections.

    In fact, now I think of it, I can’t remember a time when education was an election issue, and when it comes to children’s welfare, well, the last time there was a referendum on the question of whether or not the State should have the authority to supplant the place of parents who it was deemed were failing in their responsibilities towards their children, the people didn’t appear to show all that much interest one way or the other, and those that did, were fairly evenly divided on what was being proposed -



    It’s a good thing religions don’t have a say in affairs of the State, and it’s also a good thing that the opposite is also true, because it prevents State over-reach in discriminating against people who are religious and how they choose to raise their own children in accordance with their faith, enrolling them in schools which support the religious education of their children, supported by the State in delivering the national curriculum. The alternative is schools which are not eligible for State funding, and therefore not obligated to deliver the national curriculum. It still wouldn’t inhibit their access to children, because that’s a decision that can only be made by the children’s parents.



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  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think this is a good thing, keep the People away that don't want to be there making a mockery of the sacraments.

    The same with Christenings, the shocking behaviour and total lack of respect at Christenings is truly disgraceful.

    However, that being said, if my Boys are in a Catholic school I expect they be thought about God and Christ, So I would expect if Parents don't want their Children to Know God or Christ then they would have the option not to have their Children in religious classes.

    I am their greatest teacher though as it should be.

    However, how do we opt out Children out of WOKE classes in the future ? will we have the option ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭kowloon




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    However, how do we opt out Children out of WOKE classes in the future ? will we have the option ?

    Parents already have that option, they also have the option of not enrolling their children in schools where they don’t support the ethos of the school. It’s why for example I chose not to enrol my own child in the local Educate Together school; I didn’t mind helping them with fundraising though because even though it’s not the type of education I would choose for my own child, it’s providing other parents with opportunities for the education of their own children in accordance with their world views.



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sorry, but what has that to do with the WOKE Cult ?

    Perhaps I missed your point at 1 am. But if I decide to leave my Children in School and they decide that it's more important to indoctrinate them into the WOKE cult than teach them about Christ them I have a problem with that, if I can request them be removed from Religious classes and not WOKE BS then where is the fairness in that ? If I send them to Catholic School and they're been indoctrinated into the WOKE cult and I can possibly be in trouble under new hate speech laws if I question it or if I demand that the School teach them about Christianity instead, surely that's my right as a Christian ? surely I as a Christian have a right in a Catholic AKA Christian school not to have this bollix fed to my Children ?



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Don't get me wrong, I believe in choice, Christ never forced anyone to follow him and I believe if someone doesn't want their kids in Catholic education then they should have a right to have them out of Religious classes but If my Kids are going to a Catholic school then Shouldn't I have the right to expect them be thought about God and Christ ? Surely I can expect that the state won't enforce non Christian views upon my kids such as the WOKE cult ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,652 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What schools with Catholic ethos were set up by young parents?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    You did miss the point. You CAN already withdraw your children from WOKE BS classes if you wish. I was simply making the point that you don’t have to enrol your children in any particular schools if you don’t wish to in the first place. It’s not so much a right you have as a Christian, it’s a right every parent or legal guardian of a child has, regardless of their faith or none.



    You certainly do have a right at least to that expectation that your children be taught about God and Christ and all the rest of it, but you don’t have the right to expect the State won’t enforce non-Christian views upon your children such as the WOKE cult. By “WOKE cult” I take it to mean ideas which you disagree with.

    The thing which prevents the State from over-reaching in terms of what is and isn’t taught in religious ethos schools is Irish law, and in that respect, religious organisations can object to teaching ideas which are in conflict with their ideas. Happened quite recently when the NCCA tried to introduce the ERB curriculum, the Bishops were having none of it -

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/churchs-backlash-blocks-change-in-religion-classes-35249798.html


    If you mean in terms of relationships and sex education, then you can relax there too, as that idea was never getting out of the starting blocks, precisely for the same reason that it specifically intended to undermine the ethos of all schools by attempting to include a provision which was intended to deliver the curriculum regardless of the characteristic spirit of the school -

    https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2018/34/eng/initiated/b3418d.pdf



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,652 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What are these 'WOKE BS' classes happening in primary schools that some people want to withdraw their children from?





  • are you taken piss? So we should have kids be illiterate because “sure haven’t we all got smartphones!”

    my Aul lad struggles with reading and writing from not finishing school as a lad, he certainly wouldn’t agree with your assessment.

    Absolutely bizarre train of thought.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Thank god my kid is finished in education then.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,119 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,057 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    You don't want your child to understand about the country they live in?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,886 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    All this bickering certainly shows that people's faith is a personal matter and one to be taken privately within their faith community of choice.

    I have relatives in the Church of Ireland, Church of England and in Temples of the Reform Jewish faiths in America and although all of their kids are raised in the family faith until they come of age, all of that instruction and making of confirmation and bar mitzvahs and what not, is done at home and at Sunday school.

    And while learning about the concept of faith and tolerance for others is absolutely appropriate for primary school, the practising of faith and catechism and training for receiving sacraments should take place away from State structures.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Relationships and Sex Education -

    Overall, principals indicate that parents strongly support the provision of RSE in schools and very few parents request that their children be removed from lessons. Where this occurred, principals said it was most likely amongst parents of children from a Traveller background or parents of children from minority faiths. In these instances, teachers are encouraged to follow-up with parents and explain the approach and content of RSE, and this was usually effective in creating understanding and ensuring that students did not miss out on important lessons in RSE. In general, principals indicated that all children participate in SPHE/RSE lessons on an ongoing basis throughout the school day/year. However, they noted that when specific communication seeking consent is provided to parents on the teaching of puberty and reproduction, or the use of an external provider, a greater number of parents opt their children out of the lessons. In general, principals said they rarely encounter negative feedback from parents in relation to topics raised or approaches taken in class.

    https://ncca.ie/media/4319/report-on-the-review-of-relationships-and-sexuality-education-rse-in-primary-and-post-primary-schools.pdf


    ‘Woke’ in it’s broader context relates to the promotion of ideas of people being conditioned to be subservient in their own systemic oppression, that they have to be awoken to the idea that they are being oppressed, and that they must fight against this oppression.

    The term originated among black political activists, but has recently been appropriated by anyone and everyone who wishes to promote their own political views - portray themselves as victims and other groups in society as their oppressors, much like the way anti-theists characterise religions as oppressive, and to that end come out with fearmongering, extremist nonsense like this -



    It tends to be pervasive in the educational philosophy espoused in Educate Together schools, one of social justice from a liberal perspective where they fetishise the major religions and purport to promote freedom of speech, diversity, inclusion and all that sort of stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It’s no more accurate than his original aphorism which he coined back in the ‘90s, the one which he later rolled back on -

    Godwin originated Godwin's law in 1990, stating:

    As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

    Godwin believes the ubiquity of such comparisons trivialises the Holocaust, which he finds regrettable. He has since made it clear that, in his opinion, the alt-right, especially the participants in the 2017 Charlottesville Unite the Right rally, deserve comparisons to the Nazis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Godwin

    It’s no different than me pointing out he’s a humourless fcukhead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    And while learning about the concept of faith and tolerance for others is absolutely appropriate for primary school, the practising of faith and catechism and training for receiving sacraments should take place away from State structures.

    Religious institutions such as the vast majority of schools in Ireland owned and managed by religious organisations, aren’t State structures.

    Church of Ireland, Church of England, Jews and Muslims all have their own schools too, where they educate children in accordance with their faith. Your relatives are a fairly anecdotal sample size by comparison.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,057 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Religious institutions such as the vast majority of schools in Ireland owned and managed by religious organisations, aren’t State structures.


    Yet the state still finances them. Sooner or later this has to stop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,845 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    It's the worst run department in our public service year after year.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why would that be ? I pay my taxes. Why shouldn't Religious Run schools not receive state funding, God knows the state wasted vast amounts of money in other ways, one being handing money to People who can afford to pay their Electricity and Gas bills, this I find outrageous. But there are many more examples, the bank bail out etc, that's a big one.

    There should be more state run schools though for non Christians, I don't believe People should send their Children to school when the Only god People want to know is the "screen" and then they can allow the state teach them anything the state believes they should be thought.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,119 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    How unsurprising. No doubt under undue influence of members of the Criminal enterprise known as the RCC, influencing direction, allocation of resources, project planning, etc. Paper payslips. Hilarious. I started working in 1977 (not in Ireland) and never received a paper payslip through my decades of work.



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