First Communion preparation to be moved out of classrooms.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663187#Comment_119663187

Please tell me it's trolling.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640203#Comment_119640203

The way things are going in society lately, they might be getting very busy again in the future.

... as soup kitchens or DP centers.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663144#Comment_119663144

The learning process itself, is preparation for life.

We spend our lives learning and growing. (well some more than others)

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663187#Comment_119663187

I know.

It's spectacular in its sheer stupidity.

Hotblack Desiato

the schools still exist to provide religious education to parents who want that form of education for their children

95% of primary schools are set up explicitly to cater for this minority of parents.

It's nuts.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119661951#Comment_119661951

Yes, that would make perfect sense.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663132#Comment_119663132

Your opinions, which appear to be based upon nothing more than your perception, do not constitute evidence which supports your claim! If only it were that easy 😂

Religion isn’t departing from the classroom, that’s an entirely different discussion. All that’s happening here is 10 years after it was first proposed, the Archdiocese of Dublin is considering a pilot programme to increase participation in the Church among Catholics, particularly those who wish to have their children receive the sacraments.

This change IS at the behest of the Church, there’s no pretending about it, they’re making this change based on something you haven’t got - evidence!

The new policy in the Archdiocese of Dublin, which has been in development for four years, follows a survey of 1,800 people including parents, priests and school principals.

Precisely because, as you point out, people who wish to raise their children in whatever religion they choose can do so on their own time. People already know that. The problem for the Catholic Church, is that nominal Catholics haven’t even been doing that (it’s why they’re referred to as nominal Catholics!). They’ve been leaving it all up to Catholic schools, which it why the Church decided to try and implement this policy which would require anyone wishing to have their children receive the sacraments should register directly with the parish -

The key change will require parents to register directly with the parish for their children to receive sacraments.

Effectively, it requires nominal Catholics to make a bit of effort in the profession and practice of their faith. It doesn’t require anything of anyone who isn’t Catholic, because it’s coming from the Church, of their own volition, at their own behest, precisely in acknowledgment of the fact that as you suggest - the influence at least, of the Catholic Church, is shrinking faster than an ice cube in a sauna, and people are treating the sacraments as a day out, rather than focusing on the religious aspect.

It’s all there in the article in the opening post if you’d cared to read it.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663378#Comment_119663378

It is, but I don’t see the Dept. of Education changing anything any time soon without far more significant demand for change coming from parents and other stakeholders involved in the Irish education system, not while they still have in place a policy that once there are school places available in existing schools, they’re not going to fund the establishment of any new schools in the area.

Arguably while they’re saving the exchequer a bundle, they’re failing to uphold children’s rights to an education which is suitable for their needs. On that basis it’s easy to understand why there aren’t more people demanding more investment in education in Ireland, especially those who are of the opinion that they’re already paying enough in taxes to fund public services.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663144#Comment_119663144

Congratulations on creating the most stupid post I've read on boards so far this year.

I take it you really imbibed your notion that there was nothing to learn in school while growing up.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663144#Comment_119663144

Ah, without science, maths, english, reading (communication) you'd not be able to have this online experience.

The next online experience will be 3D virtual worlds. We're going to need a lot of science, maths, english, reading to realise that.

If we're not consumed by climate change and sent back to the stone age. In which case science, maths, english, history, geography will be useful. Also reading as the text to speech convertors might be broken.

Maybe when we've developed AI to make us redundant via science, maths, english we won't need any of the above you've mentioned as we will be redundant.

If you don't like that you'll need science, maths, english to prevent it.

History is useful so we don't repeat the past like burning books or believing in fairy tales.

History and Geography will explain why Russia is invading Ukraine. Good communication might help prevent that in the future. We certainly need leaders with good communication skills to sort this out and not depend on text to speech convertors.

Yada yada yada

growleaves

'Reading - again text to speech technology renders it unnecessary to be able to read.'

'We don't need to memorize the capital of Sweden s name.'

😂😂😂10/10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663475#Comment_119663475

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663370#Comment_119663370

Par for the course from from what other contributions I have seen

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663414#Comment_119663414

The contents of the article are simple, your just taking from it the slant that the church has given it where they are trying to save face.

The reality is that their (small) survey gave them the distinct result that parents dont what that shite in schools anymore for a number of reasons. “growing sentiments that many families and children have little interest in the celebration”

So before the decision is taken out of their hands the church (as it has always through history- changing its tune on slavery, capital punishment and recently homosexuals) is getting ahead of the inevitable change. Only for the government being so slow and conservative in not wanting to rattle its conservative elderly and significant vote this would have happened already.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663753#Comment_119663753

Isn’t that just you putting your slant on it?

Whatever the size of their survey, it was greater than the size of your survey which appears to have had just one participant - yourself! Rather convenient to support your point of view that you base your opinions on evidence presented by… yourself 🤔

The Bishops (who are the Patron of Catholic schools in Ireland), aren’t trying to save face - they’ve acknowledged that nominal Catholics have little interest in the religious aspect of the sacraments, and more interest in giving children their special day, and this is the Church’s way of addressing the issue.

I dunno what inevitable change you’re referring to that you imagine would be taken out of their hands by Government on the basis of a popular vote when Catholic schools enjoy Constitutional protection, which isn’t going to be put to the vote any time soon as it would impact upon people’s religious freedom and their children’s right to an education suitable for their needs.

This latest change in how the Catholic Church operates their schools in their parishes, in their communities, has nothing to do with Government, or any hopes you might have of religious education being removed from institutions which were established specifically for the purposes of providing, promoting and supporting parents in the education of their children in accordance with the Catholic faith -

The State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative, and, when the public good requires it, provide other educational facilities or institutions with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation.

Again, Article 42, look it up for yourself -

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#part13

Nothing to do with any ideas you have about Government being so slow and conservative in not wanting to rattle it’s conservative elderly and significant vote, which is why it wouldn’t have happened, had the Church not already taken the decision 10 years ago to work towards divesting their schools of the responsibility of preparing children for the sacraments, because their parents didn’t appear all that interested in preparing their own children for the sacraments, or participating in their religious community, beyond just turning up on the day having expected the schools to do all the preparation.

In this way, parents are going to have to actually take an active interest in their children’s religious education, rather than parents just leaving it up to Catholic schools to prepare their children for the sacraments.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663914#Comment_119663914

As someone who has zero use for the criminal enterprise known as the RCC, I welcome this proposed change, for exactly the reason Jack has stated:

In this way, parents are going to have to actually take an active interest in their children’s religious education, rather than parents just leaving it up to Catholic schools to prepare their children for the sacraments.

Yes, and the number of families participating in this farce will likely drop precipitously as a result, since they won't be able to lazily ensure that their children get enough indoctrination in order to mumble the right things while waiting for the party to start. No siree, the Bishops and assorted pederasts can now ensure that only their true teachings, administered as they have in the past, will be what's taught. Bully for them, go for it.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663914#Comment_119663914

The church doesnt have the resources for it, teachers dont have an appetite for it, parents dont have any interest in it and the schools are only ticking the box that needs ticking to do it. Classes are mixed more and more with different religious persuasions and Its inevitable that these sacraments are moved out if schools and into parents hands, you can continue to say its the churches decision if it makes you feel better but society is heading that way.

Now I understand the majority of the country are apathetic toward the catholic church while I just simply hate the institution but Not Bringing my children to mass is something that I as a parent might live to regret in time.

How can they grow up to understand the hypocrisy and multitude of lies peddled by the church if they don't go and experience them first hand.

Now dont make the mistake of confusing my hatred of the church with intolerance of it, some of my friends are actual practicing catholics and I would never voice my true views to them unless prompted. Anyone is free to believe in it whatever they choose and to practice their own brand of nonsense without recriminations

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663948#Comment_119663948

Yes, and the number of families participating in this farce will likely drop precipitously as a result, since they won't be able to lazily ensure that their children get enough indoctrination in order to mumble the right things while waiting for the party to start.

I don’t think it’s a question that parents won’t be able to lazily prepare their children to receive the sacraments; it doesn’t get much more lazy than online support groups which are already forming around the idea -

Many parishes have since been registering children for the sacraments, arranging online meetings to connect with families and organising smaller group celebrations.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2022/09/18/catholic-primary-schools-in-archdiocese-of-dublin-will-continue-communion-confirmation-preparation/

I think it’s just the idea that many parents who weren’t arsed before, will have to make some effort, but whether they will or they won’t, remains to be seen. It’s similar to what happens in ET schools already where parents organise among themselves with the parish and teachers to have their children prepare to receive the sacraments… the cost of which, is the more likely impediment for parents who cannot afford it, or cannot justify the cost of meeting a social expectation of giving their children a special day that they can boast of on social media -

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/lifestyle/mother-questions-the-rising-cost-of-communion-preparation-37421680.html

It won’t have any impact at all on Bishops and assorted pederasts ability to ensure that only their true teachings, administered as they have in the past, will continue to be administered in the future, when they have the ability to tell the NCCA where they can stick their curriculum -

The NCCA acknowledges that "in legislation, patrons have the right and duty to mediate the entire primary school curriculum with regard to the ethos of their schools".

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/churchs-backlash-blocks-change-in-religion-classes-35249798.html

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630555#Comment_119630555

Christianity was always about money and dressing up. A trip to the Vatican or Westminster/Canterbury will prove that.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662110#Comment_119662110

Anyone who opposes the move does so because they know full well that the atheists are right and numbers would fall off a cliff if it leaves the schools.

They know they are talking out their aras when they gaslight people about how most Irish parents are catholics.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664198#Comment_119664198

I’ll continue to say it’s the Church’s decision, because it is? That’s not just me wanting to make myself feel better, but it’s your denial of it certainly appears to make you feel better. Good for you 👍

As for how your children can grow up to understand the multitude of lies peddled by the Church if they don’t experience it first hand, well that’s your job - to educate your children as you see fit, and provided they meet a minimum standard of education that isn’t defined in law but is based upon a case by case judgment, jobs a good ‘un.

They’ll even learn about the concept of mental reservation through your own practice of it in relation to your interactions with your friends who are Catholic and your belief that anyone is free to believe in whatever they choose and practice their own brand of nonsense without recriminations, while also suggesting that Catholic schools shouldn’t be free to do so.

I’m not confused by the apparent contradiction at all though, because I understand it’s possible for a person to hold entirely separate and distinct beliefs which on the surface appear to contradict each other. Parents who aren’t religious themselves, but want to get their children into Catholic schools and have their children participate in Communion and Confirmation is a fairly common one in my experience. Some parents are still under the impression they have to have their children baptised in order to do so, and even when I explain that they don’t, they go ahead anyway.

Any excuse for a party, I guess 😁

growleaves

@lawrencesummers 'Now I understand the majority of the country are apathetic toward the catholic church while I just simply hate the institution but Not Bringing my children to mass is something that I as a parent might live to regret in time.

How can they grow up to understand the hypocrisy and multitude of lies peddled by the church if they don't go and experience them first hand.'

You really sound like you're going off the deep end with this post.

You want your children to go to mass because you think they'll gain first hand experience of hypocrisy of lies?

A mass is usually prayers and a reading from the scriptures with a group of people gathered together. How is that in itself meant to lay the groundwork for a lifetime of unhinged loathing?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664261#Comment_119664261

No it doesn't prove that.

Christianity is 'about' following Jesus Christ and lots of people who object to luxurious palaces have been Christians too.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664359#Comment_119664359

Maybe the hypocrisy is in listening to the words of Jesus while being in a gold laden mansion owned by one of the world's richest landlords.

Maybe the hypocrisy is when people think touching a dead saints hand will cure them despite this kinda magic voodoo nonsense being against other church teachings and the simple proof of science.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119661951#Comment_119661951

How many children will actually make a communion or confirmation in this scenario? Out of a standard class of 25 kids would it even be 5? I'd be shocked if that many attend mass every Sunday.

And I completely agree with your idea by the way, it 100% should be done as part of a Sunday school, with the parents participating and not using it as babysitting.

As damaging as it would be to the church's numbers and statistics, I'd have some respect for them if they went down this route and have 100 children make communion in a year, 100 of whom want to be there, rather than the current farce. And I say that as someone who has no respect for the church.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664387#Comment_119664387

Well it certainly proves Catholicism and CofE are about the money.

Ya there certainly are christians who don't follow that sht you are right.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664388#Comment_119664388

How many Irish churches are gold laden mansions?

Anyone can walk into a church and pray as they're kept open during the day. Ordinary mass-goers donated money for Galway Cathedral to be built and they get the use of it.

How does something being contrary to other churches' teaching and materialism prove that its hypocritical to believe in it? Where's the hypocrisy in that?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664415#Comment_119664415

Actually no most churches are too big to be called mansions.

But anyway back on topic why are catholics so scared to have confirmation taken out of schools.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664467#Comment_119664467

Because within a couple of years it will go from 20-25 out of 25 in the class who get confirmed, to 5-10, and will dwindle year on year until the overwhelming majority ignore the catholic church in this country.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664467#Comment_119664467

They're communal buildings which hold congregations, not single-person or single-family dwellings. So comparing them to houses big or small makes no sense.

Who says Catholics are scared to have confirmation taken out of schools? The survey which came to the conclusion included priests.

I think there's a greater recognition among most people that Christianity is now an opt-in religion. Atheism just is the default metaphysical belief in society due to how its assumptions permeate the media and most social systems. IOW, public life excludes spirituality so when it exists at all it tends to be private.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664467#Comment_119664467

They’re not. Some people, whether they’re Catholic or not, are afraid that they will be inconvenienced with having to prepare children themselves for the religious sacraments where it’s intended that there isn’t so much focus on ostentatious displays of wealth, and more focus on a stripped-back approach to the sacraments.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664541#Comment_119664541

That’s exactly what Catholics have wanted for years -

Amid a growing feeling in Church ranks that communion and confirmation celebrations have little to do with the child’s relationship with God, the policy advocates for “small group celebrations” for a “more prayerful, personal experience”.

Though probably not the ignoring of the Catholic Church, but the intent to make it a more exclusive organisation. There are some people in the Church who look on enviously at a certain family who have gained international attention recently for their antics, who were homeschooled as children. They’d only love to be able to emulate that kind of exclusionary fundamentalism in Catholic schools, a more purified experience of Catholic education, if you will 😂