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Bray Air Show - DART Doors forced open following delays and discomfort.



  • Regarding air conditioning, my recall was that Dublin public transport used to have better air conditioning, eg when I used to step on board the Luas I was always greeted by a refreshing cool breeze, in tune with the prevailing climatic conditions. I’m more recent times of resuming travel on Luas I observed this relative lack of air conditioning and I don’t know whether it is down to economics/green policy (which I suspect it is) or if it is connected with Covid measures.

  • I presume there are CCTV cameras where doors are visible and it can be seen who was initially responsible for opening doors. As far as I know there is a very hefty fine for causing train to stop unless a genuine emergency situation is taking place. Now defining the validity of that emergency scenario is another thing.

  • I’m wondering if drivers could get a snapshot of what might be brewing up in carriages at certain times, like this, they would be in a better position to tailor communication. Not sure if drivers have means if determining, when needed, what might be going on behind.

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull

    Seems someone has challenged Irish Rail on the discrepancies between what has been posted on social media versus what has appeared in their media statements about air-conditioning issues.

    It seems the original tweeter has now challenged Irish Rail back

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,988 ✭✭✭✭Del2005

    They can't get maintenance staff so they are limping along with 18 year old vehicles, a tram with no air con is better than no tram. I assume IE are having the same issues with staff and their lack of air con.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,264 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd

    Doubt it, they tweeted earlier saying central control had checked with all drivers.

    Tweeted again a few mins ago saying no issue when checked with drivers.

    Doubling down saying it was the first DART delayed by 5 mins outside bray that caused the issues

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat

    7.45pm and just arrived on tte dart at dun laoghaire - the show finished at 5pm. Liquid swishing around my feet smells like fresh piss. Absolute mess.train down was unsafely packed- people on wheel chairs, prams and young kids in sweltering heat with people continually trying to pack on the already packed trains. I'll be driving next year. Much prefer to be struck in my air conditioned car in the m50 than this mess.

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull

    I think the point that the original tweeter was making, was that Irish Rail specifically said to the media that nobody reported air-conditioning issues t when many customers were reporting them to Irish Rail and their own twitter account acknowledged there had been reports of issues.

    It seems that the person on Irish Rail social media has now rowed back a little on their words after being pointed out the above, when they have now seemingly suggested their own tweet perhaps could have been better worded to avoid the confusion.

    The use of the word air con issues may not have been the best option on my behalf.

    What does a driver have to check how well the air-con is performing? Do they have monitoring for every carriage in their train or do they just decide that as it's switched on it must be working well with no actual way to tell if it is or not?

  • Carriage thermometers with feedback circuit to driver would be the only way to check the environment on each carriage.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy

    Seriously though for how many days of the year is air conditioning nessecary on Dublin public transport. I can definitely see the argument for it in place like London where it's much hotter and more crowded than Dublin.

    I was stuck on a train in Italy for 3 hours with no air conditioning in 35 degree heat not the most pleasant but myself and everyone else on the train survived. It was only 23 degrees today.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980

    This episode also further enforces the perception that public transport in Ireland is a complete disaster.

  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭suilegorma

    I was on a train out of town today and there were no staff at all at any stations. I ended up getting to Bray and having to back track as the train ran direct to Bray and there were at least a dozen staff on the city side of the station. At every stop from Tara until Dalkey where it ran direct people were trying to shove on despite the carriage being full and telling them there was a train coming behind. Grown adults with absolutely no common sense or manners or even a basic understanding of safety. Each station south of the city should have had IR staff monitoring the stops and stopping overcrowding at the platforms. The carriages were hot and stuffy so even though the air temp was 23 it was much warmer inside each carriage. Absolutely not excusing the opening of doors but it was a very challenging journey and the while thing could very easily have been prevented. My kids were able to come up with preventative solutions when I eventually got home and filled them in so how IR couldn't is beyond me !

  • Registered Users Posts: 28,970 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat

  • Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Summer2020

    I think it's fair to say the M50 will be gridlock next year for this with everyone avoiding the dart. Public transport in this country is a bad joke , yet at every turn the local councils are trying to restrict car movement and access.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭bikeman1

    Why the hell did both trains out and back to Bray today that I travelled on were 6 carriages instead of 8? Loads of spare 8100s in Fairview? That is inexcusable.

    I hope the prosecute those idiots who opened the door and made a mess into a disaster.

    I for one was glad they were trying to clear the pax off the platform before allowing the next full train in, otherwise there would have been a crush.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭Northernlily

    The reality is if the doors were not opened, we could have been looking at a serious medical situation or worse this afternoon. It was an act of desperation to open them and not just some lawless scrotes doing it for kicks.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich

    Ive no qualms with being critical of irish rail when I see them failing and its affect us big.

    But I was on the first train people disembarked from. Calling it Irish Rails fault, is simply due to people who aren't used to how sections and line switching works. We were waiting for no more than 10 minutes for a train to leave and clear the line from platform 1. So ours could pull into it. As the following train needed to use platform 2.

    People got hysterical, pulled open the doors and hopped out. Once they did there was no sense of relief from "over crowding" or being to hot in the train, they were all laughing and congratulating themselves on what the did. The knock on affect was everything else had to stop for them. They were completely oblivious to it. The rest of it was a matter of sheep following others. The more they saw leave the train, the more got off.

    Eventually i was instructed to leave too. No more than 200 metres down the line was the train we were yielding for.

    This is the reason everyone else got stuck on other trains. It was the people who just wouldn't wait becuase they were unfamiliar with using trains.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich

    The people who caused the problem, wouldn't be driving.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,709 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9

    There will be no action taken against them because IE need this fallout to go away.

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich

    It wasn't IE's fault though. As much as I know it isnt going to happen, something really needs to be done to people who misuse the emergency systems on the train.

    Our driver even tried to explain what would happen, but people just threw obscenities at him over the intercom. They didn't care. They just wanted to do what suited them.

  • I can well believe that. Unfortunately very many that day would have been unused to the Dart & its little slow-downs approaching bottlenecks, and if one person panics it can be infectious. But we live in an era where •everything• is someone else’s fault, and be abdicate ourselves from all personal responsibility.

    However I do believe that perhaps better communication might have helped hold people on the train, eg “passengers, just advising you we are holding here until the platform at Bray becomes vacant, it’s a busy day with a little hold-up, but we’ll get moving in 5 to 10 minutes”, then a refresher every 5 minutes to say eg “trains are beginning to move out of Bray so bear with us and we should get moving shortly”.

    Personally I wouldn’t have got off simply as my knees would not have taken the getting down onto the track very well! I don’t know how everyone seemed to do it tbh, especially the frail grannies etc that were mentioned in sone tweets.

    As for the tweets questioning why toilets and water were not available on board, these are clearly folk very unfamiliar with the DART and who have not used a train in some years as you can’t even get a cuppa tea going to Cork.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich

    The driver tried to, but everytime he did, there was a barrage of obscenities personally directed at him over the intercoms. As you said, they weren't used to the way trains are routed. But they just flat out didn't care.

  • I kind of guessed what the atmosphere might have been on board, however on Twatter someone accused me of being a Dublin 4 elitist looking down from my tower at the peasants 😂😂😂 Just glad I decided not to go today, I’d a particularly bad feeling about it this time as people in general have become more feral… myself included!

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,105 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997

    I've had people pass out and/or get sick on my regular commuter train often enough. The overcrowding in small spaces makes it airless and very unpleasant. I actually switched back to using the car and cancelled my annual tax saver because the train was so unpleasant.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,693 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage

    It seems that Irish Rail have the wrong sort of public. How inconvenient.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,402 ✭✭✭✭Strumms

    im 1000% in agreement with this.

    “cars = bad so, so you all need to go and use an underfunded and poorly ran shítshow of a service that mostly isn’t fit for purpose.”

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,564 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn

    Even in the winter months they can't get the basics right, they put the heat up full despite the fact that everyone arriving at the station to board the train arrives ready for the weather of the day so jackets, multiple layers etc. You don't sit in your car with heat up full wearing a jacket.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭Polar101

    Just for next time, might be a good idea to try and schedule the air show and All-Ireland Final to different dates. Dublin public transport works pretty poorly during weekends, and now there were two huge events on.

    I was trying to get a 145 bus down to Bray around noon, but the traffic along the quays was at a complete stand-still with taxis/coaches/cars bringing in people for the GAA match. And loads of people trying to get to Bray too. One bus passed me in 30 minutes, but it was full. Gave up eventually, I do like airshows but getting there was too much hassle.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Pinoy adventure

    i was on one of the trains that got delayed with kids.the heat was unreal.

    that was only half the problem as Dublin bus was caught off guard and couldn’t manage the situation either.

    That’s the end of the que for buses