Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

I didn't say it was complicated. I said that it's a sign of an incorrect speed limit if you even have to think about it. A correctly designed road should not require you to really think about what speed you're doing. It should naturally feel right.

Well technically you shouldn't need to brake at all at any speed, but my point is that your average driver will naturally be inclined to go over the 30km/h limit, realise they're going to fast and then slow down. And I say average driver because most cars I've seen on Chesterfield Avenue have been exceeding the 30km/h limit.

Speed limits are assigned for different reasons

• Road engineering studies.
• Environment/Conditions
• Sin rules/behavior change.
• Political

Curiously most (but not all people) will drive(or cycle) at a reasonable speed due to self preservation. But if you set a speed for any of the above reasons this goes out of the window.

Trouble with maintaining a lower than expect speed, can be that is there is a disconnect between the location and speed expectation. People have habit of driving too fast, or not within posted limits.

This video touches many of these point. Its bit longwinded but might be of interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6gu265N-1Y&ab_channel=IdealMedia

We are seeking behavioral change. Then we should look at what does that.

But a dead straight wide road with good sight lines and pedestrians well separated doesn't scream 30k to most people. As someone said visually narrowing the road with wands does help.

100% this.

The 30 limit for the rest of the Park is appropriate, but having it on Chesterfield Avenue makes a mockery of appropriate limits.

The default urban limit of 50 km/h is entirely correct and consistent for Chesterfield Avenue.

If they do make the 30 limit permanent, a) it won't be observed, as we see now and b) if they do ticket people for exceeding 30, more than a few will take it all the way to a Judge, who will be asking the OPW and the prosecuting Garda (if he turns up), why the hell is this long, wide, straight, well demarcated road 30 km/h??!!

It sounds like you don't drive at all to be honest! Also you have no understanding of road design. Maybe you should educate yourself and check out DMURS:

"Research has found that:

• The speed at which drivers travel is principally influenced by the characteristics of the street environment

• If the design of a street creates the perception that it is safe to travel at higher speeds drivers will do so, even if this conflicts with the posted speed limit.

By eliminating risk and promoting free-flowing conditions, drivers feel more inclined to drive at higher speeds. Furthermore if speed limits are perceived as not being appropriate to the environment, it can undermine the speed limit system as a whole. The extent to which speeding in urban areas is a problem has been identified in successive surveys carried out by the Road Safety Authority, with 3 out of 5 drivers on urban streets driving in excess of the posted speed limit."

I don't think everyone understands that. Certainly not here!

And I don't think your shoplifting analogy is really an accurate comparison. It's more akin to leaving your goods unattended out on the street and being surprised that they've been stolen. The laws are still there, but they'll do little to help you if you haven't taken the necessary steps to prevent it happening in the first place.

Any mention of DMURS attracts the derision it deserves.

Nothing has been a greater creator of modal conflict and risks where none existed prior, as this bloody document.

The sweeping over simplistic generalizing was solely about speed and physics.

That there are range of other facts was entirely my point.

It makes a difference if its just a road vs a road in a park.

Then its not simply about speed.

I'm not sure what "its a park" means

Visually? Its a park full of plastic wands. Not really very park like its it.

Policy not to have crossing? They have one here https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3514742,-6.3026141,3a,75y,86.3h,96.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQd-954Tyuc0Pyepg6fw-KQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Its a park so its not full of traffic? Its full of traffic at weekends precisely because its a huge park and full of tourist attractions and leisure activities. That before you get into its bang center of a load of infrastructure.

Its park doesn't mean wildlife sanctuary.

From the news articles

"Ratra Triangle - driving at a speed of 80 kph, speed limit 50 kph, consumed a litre of vodka and two grams of cocaine, driving on the wrong side road also driving without insurance...pulling doughnuts and performing handbrake turns ... struck standing next to her mother Katarzyna’s parked car"

While an absolute tragedy. I don't see how this has anything to do with normal speed limits.

The Minister of State for the OPW, Patrick O'Donovan (FG)

Local FF and FG and SF Councillors and TDs. Also Senator Emer Currie has been making big noise about it, she's based in Dublin West with Varadkar.

Anyone with a pulse, bar the Greens really.

Hardly no reason.

It's only a minor inconvenience anyway..