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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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    #6182
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Mellor - Not quite. It may have been a poor interpretation of the constitutional. But that’s not why they were reviewing it. Afaik the SC doesn’t actively review past decisions on their own accord.

    I understand that. The case was submitted to the SC for review back in mid 2020.

    Mellor -W v R restricted state abortion laws to viability (21-24 weeks). In 2018 Mississippi signed a law in effect than banned abortion from 15 weeks. It was suspended by the court as obviously it was not in compliance with federal law. And it made its way to the SC. Which is what they were actually ruling on here in the first instance. But that decision impacts and supersedes W v R.

    Yeah I get that too, but my point about "poor interpretation" was based on the reporting (on TV) of the leaked document back in May in which Justice Alto (iirc) said that the 14th amendment did not enshrine the right to abortion in the constitution, which was the basis for the ruling back in 1973 when Roe-v-Wade was heard/ruled on. A Google search also shows that the original decision was "reviewed" in 1992 and upheld.

    Mellor -Basically it will be up to the states. Many states won’t change. But some will restrict it to fewer weeks, or even ban it.

    News is repoting that 25 states intend to outright ban or further restrict abortion laws. A lady on SKY news said that it won't change much as the power to "control" abortion will now reside with each state and they can simply place existing laws in their state constitution. The previous claim then that 25 states intend to change things would seem to contradict this.

    Like most people, I know of Roe-v-Wade simply from knowing what it refers to. I don't know the specifics of the original case and have to Google most of the information around the case. I'm still not that interested in it, but was curious as to the whether its coincidence that the SC have ruled on this, the NY gun laws, etc. and the timing of these rulings. Its also a curiosity that of the case reviewed by the SC one decison was a 5-4 majority. Seems one fo the conservative justices "changed sides".

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    #6183
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,088 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I understand that. The case was submitted to the SC for review back in mid 2020. 

    As I said, it was the Miss. law in front of the SC. They were not reviewing a previous bad judgement (which it was).

    Yeah I get that too, but my point about "poor interpretation" was based on the reporting (on TV) of the leaked document back in May in which Justice Alto (iirc) said that the 14th amendment did not enshrine the right to abortion in the constitution, which was the basis for the ruling back in 1973 when Roe-v-Wade was heard/ruled on. A Google search also shows that the original decision was "reviewed" in 1992 and upheld. 

    Same scenario in 1992. That was a separate case that affected the WvR regulations.

    The point being WvR was not under review because it was a bad judgement. It was under review because the Miss. law was in front of the SC. It was reversed because it was a bad judgement.

    News is repoting that 25 states intend to outright ban or further restrict abortion laws. A lady on SKY news said that it won't change much as the power to "control" abortion will now reside with each state and they can simply place existing laws in their state constitution. The previous claim then that 25 states intend to change things would seem to contradict this.

    The “won’t change much” claim from Sky is pretty clueless. Many states drafted trigger laws that came into effect as soon as WvR was repealed. It won’t change things in the states that don’t want it to change. Mainly blue states.

    Its also a curiosity that of the case reviewed by the SC one decison was a 5-4 majority. Seems one fo the conservative justices "changed sides".

    yup. 1 person in it.

    it was the Chief Justice who went against his supposed leaning

    m



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    #6184
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Perhaps its my use of the word review that is causing this disconnect. I understand the SC cannot simply pick some facet of law and then make a ruling on it. I understand that a case must be brought before the SC, and the Mississippi case was submitted to the SC back in June 2020. Its only been ruled on now.

    I know the 1992 ruling was a sepatate case as was the orignial 1973 one. The bad interpretation was Justice Alto's (alledged) opinion and it seems enough justices now agree that the 14th amendment does not provide a consititutional right to abortion.

    As for SKY, as I said above it seem contradictory that they claim 25 states are already making changes, then have a guest that says nothing will change. Only this morning its reported a number of abortion clinics in the states have already begun shutting down.

    Wonder where this will leave planned parenthood. Over 300,000 abortions per year and half a billion in funding.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #6185
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,088 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119252192#Comment_119252192

    Think we’re saying the same think so.

    Sky news we’re never accused of through reporting. Trigger laws have been enacted in 15 states already. Some ban immediately, others in 30 days. More will review it in time. The option exists to reduce the time rather than ban. All in all, the situation will change in about half the states. It will be interesting to see how the it affects the swing states



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    #6186
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    Ó Cuív donates gun owned by Éamon de Valera to museum (msn.com)

    Interesting to see if he had any license or authorisation to be in possession of it.



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    #6187
    Mississippi.
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭Mississippi.


    I wonder how he got it into the country even.

    Diplomatic immunity?



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    #6188
    tonysopprano
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290090#Comment_119290090

    Seeing as no new licenses for full-bore pistols could have been issued after 2009, another case of laws for you but not for me. Wonder will he be prosecuted?, ha ha ha.

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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    #6189
    tonysopprano
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290635#Comment_119290635

    The only LEGAL way for him to get it into Ireland from US, was by way of using the Firearms Certificate pertaining to this firearm, but seeing as no certificate could have been issued post 2009, then he just smuggled it in, just like all the rest of the criminals and drug dealers do.

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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    #6190
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Wonder was it deacted in the US and to EU standards?

    Might have been the way it was got in?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #6191
    tonysopprano
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291317#Comment_119291317

    Even if it was deactivated to EU standards in 2015, when he got it, it is still not up to 2019 standard, which makes it illegal, and no proof house in Ireland to deactivate it to new standards. Every which way AND lose. Rules for thee but not for me.

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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    #6192
    otmmyboy2
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,434 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    May have had a letter from the minister of justice, or may have had it imported by a restricted RFD and never been in "possession" of it bar the handover to the museum which could have been accomplished by the RFD being there.


    Just speculation mind you, more than likely all the legalities were ignored in favour of political expedience.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



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    #6193
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    But it should be a question that should be asked in case anyone else might ever fancy gifting family heirlooms to an uncaring state?

    The thing will be butchered into an unusable lump of metal.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #6194
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,088 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290635#Comment_119290635

    Well he’s not a diplomat, so not that.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291344#Comment_119291344

    Article says he received it in 2019.

    So could have been deactivated maybe??



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    #6195
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119292757#Comment_119292757

    It really is a shame that such historical pieces are being ruined and destroyed in the name of "safety".



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    #6196
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    O'Cuiv may have gotten it in on a very lenient interpretation of "antique firearm", but that still goes against AGS policy of a non reproduction pre unitary cartridge firearm. Maybe sending off a few emails might get a response, but then again, probably not.



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    #6197
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Couldn't hurt. just to show that we are keeping a "Skibberrean Eagle eye* on the great and good.🙂

    Might also be handy to know in case some mortal discovers great-granddad's Civil war keepsake and wishes to donate or keep it to get it "deactivated to EU standards" here🙄, but is done for "possession of an unlicensed firearm".



    *Skibbereen Eagle eye. A body of insignificance proclaiming to pay great attention or influence the policies of a far superior power or body. https://medium.com/@allgoodtales/how-the-skibbereen-eagle-kept-a-watchful-eye-on-the-czar-of-russia-5d64d4b75fed

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #6198
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Homemade shotgun used to assassinate Japanese Former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in Japan.

    image.png




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    #6199
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Goes to show that if someone wants a gun bad enough they'll get one.Even in an ultra-regulated country like Japan.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #6200
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,317 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294035#Comment_119294035

    Sure you see pinfires and the likes at auction here all the time and they don't meet the guidelines. I think how the law applies to you depends on who you are.



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    #6201
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    They might as well make the pinfire revolvers a pre-unitary/antique firearm free to own as well.

    Seeing that the ammo was probably last made commercially about 140 years ago at the latest, it's not like it's easy to get any type of reloading equipment for this ammo either let alone shell casings for the obscure calibres they used. The O Cuiv one is however a CF that looks like a 32 cal,so still a live firearm under the law these days.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #6202
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,317 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119334688#Comment_119334688

    I think what I'm getting at is they're all over the place, but if you're not friendly with the powers that be you'll find out how quickly the law suddenly applies. I can't think of any centrefire revolvers I've seen but I've seen quite a few rifles that would be restricted calibre up for auction. O' Cuiv is never going to get in trouble because of who he is, regardless of what the firearm is.



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    #6203
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119334761#Comment_119334761

    Yep, I’ve seen a good few deacts get sold at auction and I can guarantee that no one had a Garda authorisation for them.



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    #6204
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,317 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Kind of related: where does a revolver in .22 short sit with the law? Does it say .22LR specifically or .22 rimfire?



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    #6205
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    .22 rimfire in some cases of the acts,and on your license as .220 inches!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #6206
    BSA International
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭BSA International


    Wasn't there a subsequent SI that specified .22lr?



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    #6207
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,317 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119336910#Comment_119336910

    Does the 5 round restriction require destructive work to block the extra chambers or is there a more sympathetic option than welding and permanently destroying the piece?



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    #6208
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119336496#Comment_119336496

    22lr specifically. SI 21 of 2008 said rimfore but was amended in 2009 to specify 22lr only because, as with all legislation, those drafting it didn't realise there are a multitude of rimfore calibers.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #6209
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337247#Comment_119337247

    SI 391 of 2015 only refers to magazines but states the so long as it's made or adapted to hold no more than 5. It was meant to clear up SI337 of 2009 and did to an extent but still never addressed revolvers, seemingly only focusing on a firearm that takes a magazine.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #6210
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337247#Comment_119337247

    There’s no mention of permanence in any of the acts. So long as it functions in a legal manner, eg 5 round pistol mags, it’s ok. Whether you can reverse the modification isn’t considered.



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    #6211
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,943 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    An interesting Friday read. Gunpowder magazine on the Irish Army Ranger Wing.

    Wonder how much is hype, and truth? But seriously,They are still using the SPAS12??The worst military/police shotgun ever made?🤣 Sell them to collectors lads,thy are fetching about 5 thousand dollars now and buy more Benelli M3s or M4s.

    https://gunpowdermagazine.com/irish-special-forces-the-army-ranger-wing/

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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