Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

BattleCorp · 30-05-2022 11:23pm

That gun making video is absolutely brilliant. Not only unbelievable skill but yer man has the patience of Job.

Feisar · 31-05-2022 6:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132267#Comment_119132267

I have a Leitrim Chair, specifically a carver made by Pat Surlus, father of Jack Surlus who was in the series Hands.

kowloon · 31-05-2022 6:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137534#Comment_119137534

And the chance of ruining the whole piece in almost every task. You only learn through making lots of mistakes when you're doing it all by eye.

Grizzly 45 · 31-05-2022 7:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137534#Comment_119137534

Over 300 hours in one gun.So that's about 6 weeks of work Mon to Fri starting at dawn and finishing at dusk.No wonder the industrial revolution started with gunsmiths.😝

Munsterlad102 · 01-06-2022 1:35pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/30/canada-gun-control-handguns-assault-weapons/

Not sure how a Canadian cap on handguns would have stopped a Texan mass shooting that used rifles, but logic never stopped Trudeau. Let’s just hope our own legislators don’t get any ideas.

Cass · 01-06-2022 2:16pm

Same as our lot. Ban a gun because they don't want "an American gun culture" here or Mass shootings. Even though there has never been one, as in America, they'll then claim the ban was the reason why instead of the stringent gun laws that already exist and are enforced not to mention a community with the best values in that we self police ourselves.

otmmyboy2 · 01-06-2022 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119144202#Comment_119144202

Same as their recent semiauto grandfathering/ban, the government there, like here, is heavily anti gun in any form.

Of course stories like this will never make the rags here 😋

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/05/28/armed-woman-kills-man-firing-rifle-party/9975381002/

Hell, even the BBC reported that one, albeit heavily skewed as you'd expect.

otmmyboy2 · 01-06-2022 2:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119144559#Comment_119144559

And when there is inevitably another tragedy they will push for stronger gun control, because obviously the previous one wasn't harsh enough, rather than recognizing the futility of the idea which had failed.

Cass · 01-06-2022 3:19pm

Only recently, here, the idea was floated of mental health checks for current/potential gun owners. This idea has been floated many times in the past and dismissed as unworkable by not only gun owners, but medical helth professionals.

Some have said it is like the NCT. Its a tacky comparison, but apt I suppose. Any person undergoing such mental health checks and/or continued/repeat visits would only be considered "appropriate" at the time of the visit.

There are a number of problems, most of which I'm not remotely qualified to comment on, but I have my own uneducated opinions. Such as:

A person who undergoes an unexpected and sudden "snap" due to an unknown factor.
The unpredictability of people. You cannot legislate for the unpredictability of people so someone that is fine for years or decades may not be "fine" for a moment or after a given number of years.
Factors which would never cause a person to be a harm to others, but would preclude them from being a gun owner. Meidcation, previous history of mental health issues, but all of which have never shown to be harmful to others.
The cost of such care (most likely to be incurred by the shooting community)
The availability of such care. There is, from reading from the papers/media, between 5 to 9 years waiting list for such appointments by people that actually need it so would a person have to wait this long for an appointment and then wait yet more years to meet some arbitrary number of appointments before they can apply?

I'd hazard a guess most of us, in the shooting community, would not have any issues with gun laws as we've been brought up with them. I personally believe there are people that should not have guns and it has little to do with their mental health (I couldn't know it, so cannot comment on it).

However America has its 2nd Amendment and as such a God given right to them. With over 21,000 gun laws on the books of both Federal and state levels the laws seem to be there, but the sheer volume of guns, the accessibility of them, the lack of proper checks seems not to be working. Don't confuse that sentiment with an agreement to ban them, however as said above having grown up without a right to guns and under very strict gun laws I can see both sides of the argument.

People should not have their rights infringed because of the actions of others, however something meaningful needs to happen and if that means doing the "dirty" work of figuring out and combatting the causes rather than trying to simply ban the item used then that is what needs to happen.

This recent vile piece of sh*t that murdered those babies is an example. He waited until his 18th birthday, presumably because he could not get the guns before that age, and then committed this atrocity. What caused him to want to do this, to be able to do this and why did a background check not flag him. genuine question btw. Were there any red flags and if not then how would such mental health checks be effective.

I understand the argument that if the checks only prevent one such shooting then they are worth it and morally it impossible to argue against such a position, but once again the majority are now being held accountable for the actions of a single perons (or tiny minority) and more importantly being held accountable for actions they did not "perform".

Imagine being told you cannot buy a fast car because someone used one for a bank robbery.

Grizzly 45 · 02-06-2022 2:35am

The other theory coming out about this shooting is this was a straw purchase gone very wrong.This shooter's grandfather was a known felon who cant live in an address or knowingly have anyone possessing a firearm ant their residential address. Got to ask how does an 18 year old go out and buy two of the better grades of AR15s.I can't afford a Daniel defence, but this dropout who made his living from burger flipping can drop 4,500 for two rifles one with a 650 $ holo sight. as well? Mc Donalds pays well in Texas.

As for the background check in Texas FIK it doesn't exist,and there was nothing illegal about an 18-year-old buying two rifles either. FIK you can also possess and use a handgun with written parental authorisation in the course of your work or instruction in Texas.But you need to be over 21 to purchase outright.He'd still have had to fill in the form 4479 which is a given in any state.But isn't an instant check like the "Brady instant check system" was, until Obama defunded it as it was giving too many false positive returns.

There are multiple signs,I mean if this kid was cutting his face open," because it felt good" in school, was bullied because of his lisp and being an Emo,and his parents and grandparents don't seem to have noticed this... What's the betting he will also have been found to have been on or off prescribed mood-altering medication, which is Lithium based as well? That is the unspoken common factor in 90% of shootings over there.Some form of prescribed meds. America has a bigger mental health issue with big pharma with much deeper pockets than the gun lobby will ever have.

Grizzly 45 · 02-06-2022 2:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119144202#Comment_119144202

If you look closely at that pic with Mr Blackface Tradeau,and his masked minions behind him applauding him like a bunch of performing seals,it tells you a lot about his country. A country that was willing to chuck it's citizens into concentration camps and effectively disappear you for speaking out about a glorified cold that killed about 0.00156% of the global population. They still demand you wear one for five days if you should be insane enough,to want to visit their country,even if you have had your vaccine. A man who claimed that a truckers protest heading to his capital were a few dozen disaffected people, and when it reached a quarter million,fled like a cockroach to a safe location from his capital, where like another dictator he screamed ever more incomprehensible orders at his police forces to arrest people protesting in minus 20 degrees about their loss of lively hoods. While arranging false-flag groups, and telling his police forces to act like utter thugs! So him doing something as irrational as that shouldn't surprise anyone. But Hey! The Canadians voted for him a second time...They have no one to blame but themselves.

Grizzly 45 · 02-06-2022 2:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119144592#Comment_119144592

Seems to be a thing with former English colonies and the UK itself, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii,India ,Ireland all have strict and mostly ineffective gun laws.Sad to think that 100 years ago the UK had actually more liberal gun laws than the US at this point in history.

tinytobe · 06-06-2022 9:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162686#Comment_119162686

It makes sense from a US point of view. They are probably scared it get's into the wrong hands, especially if it's a private sale, not the armed forces of a friendly country.

Apart from that, I never understood the US attitude towards firearms, 2nd amendment or not. To me a militia would mean membership, regular training and exercise and an organization. The reality is anything but.

It's like giving somebody without a driver's license the keys to a Porsche and the right to drive as fast as they want.....

tonysopprano · 07-06-2022 12:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119167077#Comment_119167077

Don't take this the wrong way, but opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. History has shown that a disarmed populace is easily overcome, (see irish history up to 1916, Russia post 1917, China under Mao, Iraq, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, ETC ), but once said population gains a means to defend themselves (see US colonies 1774 onwards, Irish patriots 1916 onwards, etc), then things can change. Just remember in 1916 or 1921 there was no speed limit, nor driving license, but in 1776 the draftees of the US constitution had the forethought to out think most modern politicians. And just to debunk your thoughts, Militia

A militia is generally an army or some other fighting organization of non-professional soldiers, citizens of a country, or subjects of a state, who may perform military service during a time of need, as opposed to a professional force of regular, full-time military personnel; or, historically, to members of a warrior-nobility class.Wikipedia

Esel · 07-06-2022 3:46am

A militia is generally an army or some other fighting organization

Where/what is the 'organisation' in the USA though?

tinytobe · 07-06-2022 8:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119167648#Comment_119167648

This is precisely what I mean regarding a milita.

Ordinary citizens may join up, be part of this militia besides their regular profession. Also, not anybody who wants to be part of a militia will be accepted to join. Somebody who won't fit the physical requirements for instance, simply won't. Also as I have written before, a militia does regular training and exercises, they follow a routine and a schedule, they have various units and a command structure. The US National Guard would fit this description for instance, both an active guard but also a reserve unit.

At the moment I am not seeing any of this when it comes to the US gun debate. It's mostly lone gunman loving to kill in schools, shopping malls, gp surgeries, hospitals and workplaces etc... anything but no militia, no reserve, no active guard.

Some requirements will be pretty basic, like an eye exam. Eye exams are mandatory for a driver's license, so why shouldn't they be for somebody who bears arms? I think it should be pretty clear that somebody with bad vision simply won't get any kind of firearm.

Munsterlad102 · 07-06-2022 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119167077#Comment_119167077

I'm not sure what their reasoning was, but I believe most firearms and firearms related products are covered under ITAR.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Notice the comma between the "well regulated militia" part and the "right of the people part". The militia is to be well regulated, not the right of the people to keep and bear arms. You can't possibly say that "shall not be infringed" has any wiggle room for regulations or restrictions, it's plain English. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant, that's what it says. This isn't the right forum to discuss the moral qualms of American firearms legislation.

Grizzly 45 · 07-06-2022 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119167077#Comment_119167077

First off there are TWO definitions of what a "militia " is under the Constitution. This applies to both. Without writing an utter treatise on this topic,save to say there is also the UNorganised militia which is defined as anyone[being PC these days of gender equality] between the ages of 16 and 60 who is NOT a member of the organised militia. Taking at the time that the miltia was considered to be Army,Navy,Marines,Coast Gaurd,and much later the Airforce when this unorganised militia question was considered by the Supreme Court in 1912,I belive. The unorganised militia is anyone not a member of such,and therefore still subject to the 2nd amendment IF it was based solely on this "militia" definition,and there is nothing stopping you from raising a citizens miltia either in any state,but whether it is recognised by the governor of the state is another matter.

There is also the Supreme court of Smith Vs the United States in 1920,where the defendant claimed that a sawn-off shotgun was protected under the 2A as a weapon of war and therefore any military weapons in civilian hands were the only items covered by 2A. IOW were this implied, as it was never enacted on as Smith died during the case,so it was considered the defender withdrew,but still stands as a ruling. Your M4 that you could legally buy in the gunshop is protected, and not your semi-auto AR15!!!

In short; There are better legal brains and learned academics who have made a career of arguing the pros/cons of what the fathers meant in this. Seeing that these were men ahead of their time,and put the RTKBA straight behind the universal right of free expression, press and religion,and worded it in simple enough language, that anyone with a room temp IQ can understand, and esp the "shall not be infringed" bit. I cant understand the fuss.

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."

- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

No I doubt quite frankly they [US Govt] are worried about me selling my Strike eagle scope to some lad in a camo jacket and turban with an AK down the road in Limerick!🤣 Esp as they virtually gifted thousands of them,and other equipment that we can only dream of to the Taliban under President Cabbage head's dementia rule and evacuation of Afghanistan.😡 This is in reality more "feel good " legislation brought about by Mr Klintoon,another notorious gun banner,and the one world govt of the UN. While its aspirations were good ,to stop warlords arming their child soldiers in Africa or Beruit, in the end, it affected only the legal gun owners globally in making it harder for us to legally acquire parts or firearms.

This of course also suits the UN and the EU,as both have the policy of "The least guns in the civilian population the better to easily rule them!"

And its not that the US doesn't want to sell us stuff,as we aren't N Korea or Ruzzia. It's just that we are too small a market to bother with in Ireland Vs the paperwork it requires. At the end of the day,you can probably source most anything[bar firearms and ammo] in Germany or the UK,France or Italy and get it sent to you here,[at a higher cost obviously] than going thru the paperwork of applying for a Dept of commerce license to export one unit, getting an FFL dealer in the US to ship it outside CONUS, finding a courier company to do the shipment,and paying import duty as well into Ireland.

Grizzly 45 · 07-06-2022 12:50pm

Some requirements will be pretty basic, like an eye exam. Eye exams are mandatory for a driver's license, so why shouldn't they be for somebody who bears arms? I think it should be pretty clear that somebody with bad vision simply won't get any kind of firearm.

WOW!! Check your 20/20 Eyesight privileges there you discriminator of the optically challenged NAZI!!!🤣🤣

Can they not use glasses or contact lenses? Ever hear of corrective eye surgery? So then they shouldn't operate motor vehicles or equipment that causes more deaths in the US than firearms? But seriously,this kind of BullsHT has even been tried on in the EU when the proposed gun ban was fought in Brussels in 2017.E

The reason all this crap won't work in the US is because of the last line. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!! IOW it doesn't say anything about deer or duck hunting,or mag capacity,or joining an organised militia, or whatever.it says "arms" and at the time most "arms" in civilian hands in the 1700 America were military in nature anyway. Also, if you read up on what happened at Lexition and Concord where this all kicked off,it was because the English wanted the towns' CANNONS, not their muskets. Contrary to president Brandon's assertations that "you could never own a cannon under the 2nd amendment" citizens COULD and DID and DO own them,if they were wealthy enough.In fact the US Navy traces its roots back to civilian privateers who owned their own men of war.Be the equivalent today of Elon Musk owning and operating a nuke aircraft carrier group.

tinytobe · 07-06-2022 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168558#Comment_119168558

Sure, I understand your point, but then again, I can also see all the other statements separated by a comma. It's not that the one doesn't work with the other, otherwise, it would just be "A well regulated militia" and no connection to "being necessary to the security of a free state",

In the end, it's one sentence, not different bullet points, it's also not separated by the word "and" indicating another idem. It would be as you described if it would be phrased ", and also the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed".

tinytobe · 07-06-2022 5:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168906#Comment_119168906

This automatically begs the question if in the US they would sell a firearm to a blind man? Given the fact that he can't see his target, and owning and bearing shall not be infringed, he can buy a firearm, and fire without knowing where to fire to..... You can imagine the result.

Munsterlad102 · 07-06-2022 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170549#Comment_119170549

Yes, I know of a case where a blind man got a concealed carry permit and a firearm in Massachusetts. Quite a feat considering that MA is very restrictive.

tinytobe · 07-06-2022 8:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170867#Comment_119170867

The ironic and ugly question would be, if a blind man gets a firearm, what or whom is he going to shoot at? And firearms are meant for shooting......

Grizzly 45 · 07-06-2022 8:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170549#Comment_119170549

You do know that blind folks' hearing improves or is already more acute to compensate in many cases for their blindness?

Seems this blind guy can shoot better than some people with sight.🤣 And he seems to have the self defence shooting side of it sorted out too.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/blind-man-gets-permit-to-carry-a-gun.32688/

https://www.inquisitr.com/942905/blind-gun-permit-iowa-gun-control-concealed-carry/

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/04/us/national-news-briefs-blind-man-gets-permit-for-concealed-weapon.html

Munsterlad102 · 07-06-2022 8:31pm

Again tinytobe, there’s two separate points there, one for a well regulated militia and one for people’s rights. Obviously the two other commas are for punctuation, otherwise it wouldn’t make sense. Commas have multiple functions, one of them being a substitute for the word “and”. At the end of the day, your interpretation completely ignores the phrase “shall not be infringed” and is hence, a fundamentally flawed opinion.

Munsterlad102 · 07-06-2022 8:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171089#Comment_119171089

That’s exactly what I thought, but in Massachusetts, a state that banned AR-15s and Glocks outright, the local police thought it prudent to issue such a license. But I can’t imagine he’s much of a sharp shooter.

Grizzly 45 · 07-06-2022 8:38pm

Maybe they figured him to be an especially vulnerable person because of his handicap and issued it? If he passed whatever requirements to pass,they wouldn't have any good reason to refuse him either.

Grizzly 45 · 07-06-2022 10:03pm

On somthing completely different.Found this in the RTE archives...How stun guns and crossbows became illegal and licensed in Ireland...

https://www.rte.ie/archives/collections/news/21304542-stun-guns-to-be-banned/

The GRA were behind this no doubt...

https://www.rte.ie/archives/collections/news/21274936-gra-want-weapons-control/

tinytobe · 07-06-2022 11:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171221#Comment_119171221

It wouldn't surprise me if somebody in the US would offer target practice sessions for blind people owning firearms. Maybe there is a national blind people firearms association in the country? If not, I am sure it's an aaaawesome business idea........

BattleCorp · 07-06-2022 11:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172012#Comment_119172012

They'd have as much chance of hitting the target as I would.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County