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The "Munster can't possibly lose this" Leinster v Munster build up thread

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    #332
    Dave_The_Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    That was - either way it ended - a very entertaining game and ended up being a very enjoyable evening out. Looking forward to watching it back.



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    #333
    Dave_The_Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    The Larmour-Osborne-Frawley-Foley second try: https://streamable.com/18b1ou



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    #334
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,039 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    When your dummy fools the cameraman.



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    #335
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,075 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I don't get the criticism of Murphy for this game. He called the offenses that happened. Clear as day penalty try. He wasn't let the teams get away with messing.



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    #336
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,046 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095764#Comment_119095764

    >JVG made European knockouts 4/5 times and league playoffs every time


    And won nothing.



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    #337
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095935#Comment_119095935

    I think it comes down to a few things:

    1. The first game he reffed between the teams in Thomond a few years ago. Leinster uncharacteristically lost their discipline and got 2 yellows and a red in the first half (iirc they were their first cards of the season). They were the right calls, but I’d wager some fans still have that in mind.
    2. He misses a lot / leaves a lot go (depending on your reading)
    3. He occasionally makes some weird decisions in conjunction with the TMO.

    Yesterday, the one that was annoying me was that he was calling advantage-over from a knock-on even within the first phase and a team going backwards. That’s not advantage. The best you could say is that he was doing it for both teams.



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    #338
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,332 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095748#Comment_119095748

    It was a maul, going forward, dragged down by a player entering from the side a metre from his own try line. It was a penalty try all day.



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    #339
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095810#Comment_119095810

    They’ve definitely been present, imo; I think in the last Leinster game, our lineout went to pot when he came on.

    I agree with regards Scannell tho. I’ve high hopes for Scott Buckley.



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    #340
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095764#Comment_119095764

    Munster have failed to progress, each time they rock up with the same game plan, get beat and move on

    The players are able to produce 1-2 large performances and then it’s seen as progress only to disappear. It’s the same this season, Leinster beat Munster in Thomond, then a couple of display. Talk of progress and bang gone again

    He doesn’t have the ability to progress young player either into the team like other provinces have.

    im not sure why you play Carbery at 10 and then play a game plan which suits Healy? They have done that a few times

    The answer to all questions is a SA player

    Thr list goes on. MOC got to a semi, won the URC equivalent but was a poor coach and was rightly moved on.

    Benetton won the Rainbow Cup last year, are you telling me it’s irrational for Munster to think they should have won that as the best team in the competition by a distance?



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    #341
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,046 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxN85tZqnsA&t=193s


    3:34 in. Posted without further comment.



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    #342
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095764#Comment_119095764

    Personally I think it needs to be accepted that the players aren't there.

    I think that's only partly true tbh. While Munster have a couple of weaknesses in the squad (front row being the most pressing), the players at JVG's disposal now are better than the ones he inherited from Rassie, but performances have not improved.

    After five seasons, there should be some indication of progress and a discernible JVG style of play but there is neither.

    Making the league playoffs is the minimum expectation for Munster. Qualifying for European knockouts has been consistent, fair enough, even if it's become a whole lot easier in recent years. What we did not see was an increased probability of Munster beating the better European teams

    I dunno, I just feel we've all been treading water for five years waiting for either JVG to show us something or to just move on.



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    #343
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095989#Comment_119095989

    Munster have failed to progress, each time they rock up with the same game plan, get beat and move on

    This just isn’t accurate tho. Here (and the last few times we’ve played Leinster) we’ve had far higher passes-per-phase and offloads than we had versus previous box-kick-fests v Leinster.

    He doesn’t have the ability to progress young player either into the team like other provinces have.

    This also isn’t true. It’s been shown on here countless times, over the last season and a half or more, JVG has increasingly backed the young guys.

    im not sure why you play Carbery at 10 and then play a game plan which suits Healy? They have done that a few times

    What game plan do they play which suits Healy but not Carbery? Genuinely interested.

    The answer to all questions is a SA player

    This, again, isn’t true. 9 academy players were promoted last season.

    Benetton won the Rainbow Cup last year, are you telling me it’s irrational for Munster to think they should have won that as the best team in the competition by a distance?

    You know Leinster were in the Rainbow Cup too, right?



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    #344
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,332 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Leinster paid lip service to the rainbow cup given its scheduling amongst European knock outs



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    #345
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095993#Comment_119095993

    What’s the issue? Penalty was given.



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    #346
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095999#Comment_119095999

    As I am sure you are aware Leinster threw the Rainbow cup as they had won the league and concentrated on the HC, Munster beat them and the trophy was open to win but JVG failed.



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    #347
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096028#Comment_119096028

    Ya, I’d agree to large extent, but in a tournament with so few fixtures, the variance is higher. One slip up and it’s over; hence Benetton winning.

    How about the others points I made?



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    #348
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,046 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096016#Comment_119096016

    The issue is Frank telling the (Munster) tackler to release, the (Munster) tackler not releasing, and then Frank deciding to play on with tackling team (Munster) gaining the ball. The penalty was given for something else.



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    #349
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095596#Comment_119095596

    When you’re the only person making this point then maybe it’s time to reevaluate it.



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    #350
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096038#Comment_119096038

    Which is maybe why it might be a good idea to post with comment in future? (I played the clip with the sound off).

    Did Murphy get his knee to the ground?



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    #351
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096054#Comment_119096054

    It almost doesn’t matter. Murphy calls tackler to release. He can only do that when the tackle is complete. The ball is stripped after that, which is then illegal. He is literally contradicting himself. He is saying the tackle is complete and allowing a strip after that. I haven’t seen the game so can’t comment on performances of players or officials, but that snap shot is pretty poor stuff.



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    #352
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096086#Comment_119096086

    I see the point, but my larger point is that the poor decisions happened against both sides. Which some on here are overlooking.



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    #353
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Murphy was grand. Like, you'll always find errors in every game by every ref if you're looking for them.

    He got all the big calls right and he didn't influence the result. That's as much as you can ask for in the era of hyper analysis.



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    #354
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096099#Comment_119096099

    Agreed.



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    #355
    Silent night
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭Silent night


    Jvg should have gone 2 if not 3 years ago he talks about pride and the Munster way but was never good enough to manage Munster when you look back in all that has gone on the sparkle has just been missing



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    #356
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096138#Comment_119096138

    Disagree. At the time, he had reached 2 European SF’s and 2 Pro 14 SF’s. That was when Felix Jones and Jerry Flannery were replaced with Larkham and Rowntree too, which was largely regarded as an upgrade at the time.

    I think he deserved another 2 years with that coaching team.



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    #357
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096030#Comment_119096030

    Nah I’m ok on the other points, you have opinion and I have mine

    based on JVG track record since he was made head coach I am happy with mine



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    #358
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096167#Comment_119096167

    Fair enough. Fwiw, I’m happy he’s going now too, particularly with Prendergast coming back.

    Genuinely interested in the Carbery v Healy point tho.



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    #359
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096201#Comment_119096201

    I've thought for a while now that Healy is a better 10. Carbery had a good game v Exeter, but overall Healy has been in better form and far more consistent this season. Carbery plays like a guy filling in at 10. He has never really looked natural in that position. Leinster knew this 5 years ago. He reminds me of seeing James O'Connor playing 10 for Australia. Great player, just not a great 10.

    Harry Byrne has had a tough season and some poor games. He was solid last night, he did his job well without shooting the lights out. But watching him play, it's obvious that he's a 10. He knows how to play there, he's got a good pass, squares up before distributing and he mostly made the correct decisions. You would never think he's better suited to another position. Likewise Ben Healy, you watch him play and you just know he's a 10 and he's been a 10 for a long time. He just get's it. It's an eye test of sorts, difficult to put your finger on.

    You never get that watching Carbery. He's clearly a very good rugby player, but that doesn't always correlate to being a very good 10. There are nuances to playing that position that he just doesn't have. He wasn't even a 10 in school ffs.

    Anyway, JVG isn't going to change now, with possibly one game left.



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    #360
    Downlinz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095950#Comment_119095950

    This is a team with 2 or 3 international starters, what makes you believe they deserve to be lifting trophies?



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    #361
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096154#Comment_119096154

    I nearly admire you for sticking with your man but in reality van Grann should have been paid off and sent on his way 2 years ago. It's been a fairly dismal tenure, imo, and listing off knock-out games we got to and lost doesn't change that for me.



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