The "Munster can't possibly lose this" Leinster v Munster build up thread

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095149#Comment_119095149

9 out of 10 times today it did absolutely nothing but hand possession back to Leinster. It is a pointless tactic and we seem to think it's a valid part of the game plan - what is so good about kicking like that, handing pos to the opposition and then losing 5-10 metres cos they steam back down the pitch with ball in hand?

Leaving the theme of the match thread aside, I'm disgusted in VanGraan for phoning it in all these years, coaching Rassies players in a style befitting of Springbok rugby at the expense of Munster rugby.

Rassie has said he loves European clubs paying to develop his players, he must be extra delighted having VG doing it in such a deliberate fashiom and no doubt Bath can look forward to more of the same.

Ian Flanagan needs to take a look at himself here and ask what he is adding to the club. There is so much talent here but its not being developed.

I've never been more disappointed after a Leinster win. Ireland needs a strong Munster and these players are being let down.

leakyboots

Thought we got good return from our boxkicks to be honest

Clegg

Munster don't seem to have much idea of their attack beyond the second phase. There was a lot of speculative kicking and wide miss passing going on.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095178#Comment_119095178

I’d largely agree and it’s in large part because the accuracy isn’t there; we seem to have to improvise after 3rd phase in a way Leinster don’t. We don’t have the same fluidity. But we were clearly trying, especially in the first half, we must’ve had a really high number of offloads. (Pair that with Carbery having a particularly poor game doesn’t help…)

At this point, I think we have a huge psychological issue with Leinster. It reminds me of Ireland v NZ prior to Chicago at this stage….

Spudmonkey

The reason we box kick so much is cause after shovelling the ball back and forth across the line for 10 phases and getting nowhere there isn't much else you can do. That was embarrassing really. Home or not, a virtually full strength Munster losing by 10 to a second string Leinster.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/LeinsterRoyalty/status/1528106695150419969?t=PVcEFdCuqEYgLDE56OENEw&s=19

..

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095160#Comment_119095160

Conway and earls won most of them........

rodge123

And to think Munster were offering Van Gran a new contract when it was as clear as daylight he isn’t up it. Whatever about Van Gran, whoever runs Munster rugby are even more clueless.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095224#Comment_119095224

.......the irfu?

yerrahbah

IRFU deal with the contracts.

yerrahbah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095224#Comment_119095224

That was the IRFU

rodge123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095236#Comment_119095236

Jaysus really? I’d have though it would have been the Munster CEO/board. Were the IRFU deliberately trying to keep Munster playing turgid rugby offering Van Gran a new contract!

Former Former Former

That was pretty bizarre really.

When Murray got his try, that should have been the end for Leinster. The greater experience and greater need of Munster should have kicked in and they should have pulled away.

Instead Leinster looked like the team who needed the win and Munster just looked bereft of ideas and dare I say, bereft of passion. They're simply a different team without POM.

I was delighted for Larmour, it's a been a while since we've seen him ripping defences apart like that. He's just earned a jersey next weekend, even if it's only 23.

Haley and Farrell went very well for Munster but after that..

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095236#Comment_119095236

Munster would have sought the ok from IRFU. Can't shift the blame for this onto the IRFU.

Clegg

I'm becoming more convinced that Jamie Osborne and Joe McCarthy are the real deal. They're just 20 and 21 respectively, but they play like they've been pros for years. Both were exceptional today.

Osborne makes good decisions in attack, knows when to pass and when to run and has the athleticism to constantly get over the gainline. McCarthy only has 8 senior appearances, but looks comfortable playing against far bigger forwards. He's a strong carrier, has an offloading game and can pilfer ball at the ruck. Also, I'm convinced he was entitled to hit Murray at that ruck. Ball was out and the back foot no longer in play. He has smarts about him too.

Neil3030

Whatever about JVG, I'm most excited about Prendergast replacing Larkham. His system just hasn't worked. Probably fine to keep moving it side-to-side if you have fast powerful finishers who will eventually take a man on the outside, but that's never been how Irish players score tries. I'm hopeful Prendergast will understand that and oversee the required shift in approach. Confident too that Rowntree will be a more effective conduit between the national setup and the Munster coaching staff, in terms of implementing the newly developing national style. This feels so much like the end of the MOC era at Leinster and we all know what followed there!

molloyjh

The IRFU aren’t making those decisions in isolation of Munster FFS. They rubber stamp this stuff but Munster are the main decision makers.

Dubinusa

Is there a punter out there that can upload this match?

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095260#Comment_119095260

The biggest thing for me with Osborne is how well he controls the space around him in defence. He never looks at sea, he reads the game way beyond what a 20 y/o or whatever age he is should.

And yes that ball was out. He should have gone for the ball not Murray. Frank was always going to give that.

All_in_Flynn

Just goes to show how important coaching is. Every Leinster player is drilled and knows what they are doing. Munster lose their shape after 1st phase.

Joe McCarthy looks a talent. First time getting a proper look at him. Thought Baird went well at 6 on initial viewing. Showed more grunt than we've seen from him previously.

Just putting this out there, but if you're Frawley, what do you do!? Stay at Leinster and know that whilst you'll get games, you're going to be behind Henshaw or move and have the potential to play the meaningful games and fully develop his obvious talent. I'd hate to see him go personally but I think he's a huge talent and is too good to be playing second fiddle. There is central contract for him if he moves in my opinion or a big contract if he goes abroad. I know people will say that the best place for him is where he is but I think it's a valid question for someone like him with the player he's competing against.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095257#Comment_119095257

Haley and Farrell went very well for Munster but after that..

I’d add Ahern, and also Kendellan and Conway at times, but that’s about the height of it. You see some excellent stuff in flashes from Munster, but it’s not frequent enough. I think we have the bones of some good attacking structure in place, so I’m hoping Prendergast can get the most out of it.

EDIT: what Neil said above.

Neil3030

Agreed on Frawley. The Ngatai signing may render him 4th choice in midfield, and he's really too talented to be be a utility man. Do they see him as a 10 perhaps?

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095197#Comment_119095197

Sorry, but Munster were missing 7 starting players in the pack, plus De Allende and Zebo in the backs. Nowhere near a full-strength team.

All fit this is the Munster 15,

Kilcoyne, Scannell, Archer,

Beirne, Snyman,

O’Mahony, Coombes, Cloete/Hodnett

Murray, Carbery,

Zebo, De Allende, Farrell, Conway,

Haley.

Casey would have come on with 30 to go but was also not available.

No matter what the Leinster fans have been saying all week, there were no bad players playing, either they are talented young players or capped internationals or players that have plenty of experience.

All that said, the team sheets indicated a close match and that’s exactly what it was in the end. There were a few key scores, and refereeing decisions and the penalty try and yellow card probably put it beyond Munster when it was such a tight contest. Munster needed two tries so they had to turn down any kicks at goal, so the score line slightly flattered Leinster because of that.

Madeoface

As a leinster fan I'm happy. As an ireland fan tho I'd like to think that's the end of talking up Harry but also that they are fitting a 10 shirt on frawley. Carberry is not an option, surely anyone and everyone in the irfu see that now?

The only option resides in London irish but we've had years to fix that replacement option to JS. We are banjoed in the WC going with joey as probable 10.

Farrell put the rest of the munster squad to shame today. Well fought sir. Larkham has some cheek picking up a cheque...left right , right left, box kick....

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095298#Comment_119095298

Even there tho it's going to be tough to get time. Both Brynes there ahead of him. Kind of wild to say, but the national team might be better served long term if one of Henshaw or Ringtone were at another province.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095346#Comment_119095346

I’d understand in other games but Harry put in a very good performance tonight.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095341#Comment_119095341

But they didn't turn down kicks at goal. They took one at 32-22 and Murray took a quick tap after signposting it to the Leinster defence soon after IIRC

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095356#Comment_119095356

My guess is that he'd have a lot lower bar to dislodge a Byrne at 10, than a Ringrose/Henshaw in midfield.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095341#Comment_119095341

JOD/Kendellen played exceptionally well in Munster’s biggest game of the year only two weeks ago. They both start over Cloete/Hodnett right now.

Munster’s team on paper should be winning that game. Trying to make excuses isn’t going to bring the changes that are needed to progress.