Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

There's some sort of campaign underway by a number of head brexiters - Mogg (or Ress-Mogg or whatever) was on radio or TV this morning moaning about the UK being treated unfairly by the EU, both Truss and Johnson have been making a lot of noise over the last couple of days about overriding the NIP - along the lines of their amazing oven ready deal "not working it has to go", and Frost and I think another a minister were speaking the the US on the subject - looks like Frost had a audience of about 10 or 12... dont know why it was even reported on - is this dead cat stuff to distract from the 50 fines for Downing Street parties, or to keep the UnDUP happy ?

Two by-elections they'll probably lose; claims of 5-10 "red wall" Tories in talks to cross the floor - there's a chance he'll need to keep the DUP on side as that "thumping 80 seat majority" is beginning to evaporate

Yes Treaties are broken all the time by countries who depending on the gravity of the situation are then shunned by the rest of the international community. You break a treaty with a small African nation and unfortunately the rest of the world might just look on disapprovingly. You break atreaty with the largest trading bloc in the world and theres gonna be some serious consequences like nobody will trust you again meaning all future treaties will be far harder to get a good deal on and likely have pretty draconian clauses in the case of you breaking them.

Also as many have pointed out theres no treaty to limit NATO expansion all assurances were made orally. Also not sure if Russia is really the country you want to use as a comparison for the UK.

Finally Ireland broke no Treaty, we were granted legislative independence under the Statue of Westminster in 1931 allowing us to amend out constituation and move from the Irish Free State to Eire and then in 1949 the british Government passed the Ireland act recognising we were no longer part of "his majestys dominions".

In what way was he less positioned than Farage when he started appearing.

QT has been stooping to clickbait guests for a while now.

If that's what he's doing, they are ven more devious shower of c you next Tuesdays than I had thought them to be

And the DUP go along with it. For the definition of useful idiot they could use their logo

Tbf, what other option do they have? Like the Tories, they cannot stand on their record so need an enemy to focus attention on.

Without this what do they offer to a new NI? Not much, so they need to have a 'war'.

The strange thing is many people simply accept that its the EU they are fighting against, for the sake of the Union. When in reality it is the UK government and voters they are fighting against as they are in favour of Brexit and agreed to this deal.

The country can break a Treaty alright ............ but they can't expect just to break bits of the Treaty that they don't like while still having the other bits remain

If the UK had an agreement with India so that it could send them X amount of trade tariff free per year in return for 10,000 visas, you couldn't expect the Indians to continue letting them send that trade in tariff free if, the day after signing, the UK decided "actually we don't want to give out the visas so let's scrap that part but keep the bit we like. All good India - yeah?"

Ireland broke an agreement to pay land annuities to the UK government which resulted in a a good chunk of a decade or so of economic war.

I think while London will push through and the EU will fold. It will Likely mean Britain with unfettered access to the EU single market than us being divided out.

Most of Europe isn't plussed either way and Johnson will have taken encouragement from recent statements.

America may decide things though.

But, you've lied on other threads. Why should we believe you now? Remember your quote about Ta-Nehisi Coates that you made up? There's prior art with you.

And an agreement where the victim were paying reparations to the colonial oppressor at that. Not really the same as the willingly signed Brexit agreement.

No, you're wrong, I have never said the EU will throw Ireland out of the SM.

That is not how it would happen.

It will happen by default. It won't be some grand announcement in Brussels.

It will be increased checks between the continent and Ireland over time until suddenly people will realise that we are less and less part of the SM.

I repeat what I have always said, the Tories will only be forced to stop this behaviour when the consequences are laid out for them.

Next you'll reply the EU is playing 4d chess instead of what I strongly suspect is the reality (particularly in the context of Ukraine) that they have no intention of sanctioning Britain.

If the EU came out this week and laid out the steps they are going to take I'd be happy with that.

In my view they need to describe what exactly the retaliatory action is going to be so the British public know. This should increase opposition to these tactics in London and help put pressure on the Tory party.