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Minimum Wage - How can you survive ?

135

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    Wow must say you have turned out to be a great person ,well done.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Semantics? Um.. wow.

    While some will inevitably fall through the cracks.. would that be the half million people living in poverty? or the couple hundred thousand who end up with malnutrition in this country?

    You made the claim that nobody was starving in this country, which is blatantly false. Food poverty is a serious issue for many people in this country... and no system is going to be reliable enough to provide for everyone concerned. Mistakes will happen, as will inefficiencies.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Oh, grow up. ffs,

    There's nothing in here about what kind of person I am, or the standard of my life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Weezer22


    well.. it kind of implies that they deserve their situation because they don't work hard.

    And good for you with your Masters degree. Obviously you did work hard to obtain that. But unfortunately a lot of people don't have the same opportunity. Once you're not in college and stuck in a dead end, low wage job, its hard to drop all that and go back to college full time, especially if you have rent to pay, kids, car loans etc. I'm not saying you probably didn't struggle with those things either, but you can't deny that it's incredibly difficult to manage and many people simply can't make the decision to go back to college. That is why I don't think that it is fair for people to try to justify their poverty due to their 'choices'. Not everyone has the choice to further their education and work their way up.

    People in this forum are calling people lazy and complaining that they don't work hard enough. Scroll up a few posts and you'll see that i'm not "inserting things as if they've been said".



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    As I said previously: you will always have people living in poverty or around the line. It’s inevitable.

    Fine, I will rephrase my claim then: nobody in this country needs to starve because there are plenty of measures in place. If they do then that’s a result of bad choices and of having refused help. So feel free to respond with an essay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    When people are quick to pull that out chances are they couldn't give a **** about the less well off or any genuine discussion.

    Exhibit A:

    And they get the social housing, medical card etc - no matter whether the reason is an impairment, or that they just couldn't be arsed bettering themselves. Some I know deliberately never earn over 18k so they can avoid paying tax.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Yep.

    When people have to choose between bills and food they can line up outside the charities.

    Thats the dream alright.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    well.. it kind of implies that they deserve their situation because they don't work hard.

    Except, the previous posts weren't aimed at those in poverty, but those on minimum wage, which don't always go hand-in-hand. The issue of poverty was raised later in the thread for a separate point.

    I'm not saying you probably didn't struggle with those things either, but you can't deny that it's incredibly difficult to manage and many people simply can't make the decision to go back to college.

    I got my MBA through work, as it was a requirement for that company if I wanted a management position.. and I didn't take off time from work to do it. I still worked my 40-50 hours a week while also studying. I'm not saying it's easy. haha. Oh, good Lord, it wasn't.

    There is no one-fit-all. I know a single mother who managed to study while working at a cafe, because the cafe had long periods where it was quiet.. so she was able to do the work needed for her degree. Whereas I know others who don't have such a situation, and can't find any spare time for a university course, however, are doing a range of online qualifications on their phones when they have some free time (flexible learning options). None of this is a suggestion that it's easy... but this is the world we live in. It's a highly regulated world, one that is becoming more controlled as time goes by, which means that degrees, or technical/industry certifications are going to be required for most jobs beyond the most basic of salaries/wages.

    That is why I don't think that it is fair for people to try to justify their poverty due to their 'choices'.

    I'm getting the feeling that we have a different concept of what poverty entails. There is no need to justify anything if you're in a situation of poverty. It is what it is, and it comes down to individual circumstances. Getting yourself out of that position is what matters, if you can. (Naturally, I don't mean you, personally)

    People in this forum are calling people lazy and complaining that they don't work hard enough. Scroll up a few posts and you'll see that i'm not "inserting things as if they've been said".

    Yup, and they were being called lazy for being on minimum wage. Not for being in poverty. I know people who are on minimum wage, who come from wealthy families, or have partners who are earning very good money. I wouldn't call them lazy for being on minimum wage, but I can understand why others might... but in any case, they're not "poor" as in poverty... Different strokes for different folks, and all that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Which doesn't relate, even slightly, to what I wrote. Show me a few quotes directly justifying a persons position in poverty.

    Well, with that attitude, I'll simply ignore you. Although it's worth noting that I replied to you previously with a few sentences and a link... and you ignored it completely, so I suspect it doesn't matter what's written, because you'll get annoyed regardless.

    As for an essay.. it's sad that the ability of people to read has declined so much that anything on this thread could be considered the length of an "essay".



  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭babyducklings1


    Didn’t think they were allowed to ask these kinds of questions at interviews.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    I was, seem at time all done very casually in a light hearted conversion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,221 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    minimum wage currently nets you about 19500. i used this calculator and have not checked its veracity (presuming it is calculated on a 40 hour week for 48 weeks)

    thats 1625 net per month.

    average monthly rent is at 1516 per month (https://www.thejournal.ie/daft-rental-report-all-time-low-5596453-Nov2021/#:~:text=The%20average%20rent%20nationally%20now,of%2011.9%25%20on%20last%20year.)

    so if you are on minimum wage and renting out a place on your own you have €109 per month to live on and pay all the bills. not feasible in the slightest.

    to answer your question in the title, if you are on minimum wage (and renting alone as my addendum), you cant.

    (realistic) solutions (you cant give everyone on minimum wage a house of their own for nothing) (and also presuming there is no ability to get a higher paying job):

    house share - with 4 sharing you net 1246 per month after rent, plus the bills also being split.

    move to a county with lower rent (provided there are jobs available), and also house share. that'll net you more.

    if you're a couple, think about taking a tenant in via the rent a room, and take all that tax free.

    regardless, compromises would need to be made about where and who to live with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,075 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    If someone asks those questions then it's good reason to not work for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭babyducklings1


    Light hearted conversation or not didn’t think they could go there on these questions. Interview bias and all that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I was talking about there being people with a bad attitude towards the worse off. I gave an example. They dismiss them and believe its a choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭dotsman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Firstly, that figure is the average for properties currently being advertised, not "the average rent".

    Secondly, single people on minimum wage aren't supposed to be able to afford the average rent. The clue is in the name.

    Thirdly, moving to a different country and earning minimum wage will likely mean earning a lot less.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    I had looked at it, which is why I changed my argument to “nobody needs to starve” instead “nobody is starving” in this country. The main factors listed were illness, mental health and addiction issues. An income increase would not make any difference here, nor does it help people who simply don’t know what nutrients they need to be healthy. This isn’t a monetary factor but the result of support services either being inadequate or refused.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thats rent of an average property which is probably a 3 or 4 bed semi d. So renting one room in the average rental property i c 500 euro per month. I suggest you now redo your sums. Also the rental price if you have dependents(ie a family) is highly subsidised by the state through HAP.

    For example a family with 3 children will get 1300 euro pm towards rent in dublin. Shucks even a single person in a one bedroom in cavan gets 389 euro pm

    The real sweet spot for entitlements in this country is to be on a non jobseekers payment(eg lone parent of carers'), work minimum wage 19 hours or less PW. Get all entitlement such as medical card and housing supports and if kids get a massive income boost from Family Income Support. I have done the sums. Incomes massively exceed full time minimum wage work and is on par with the income of a basic nurse working full time(and for added kick in the nuts, the tax the nurse pays is subsidising this)



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fair enough. I thought you were being specific to such remarks about people in poverty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,903 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    money has become our chosen medium to help us provide ourselves with our needs, but theres clearly serious issues involved in its uses and methods of circulation, its clearly obvious wealth is beginning to accumulate, which means more and more are struggling to meet their most critical and essential needs, this is most evident in our property and health care problems. yes we have done extremely well in reducing the cost of food and its redistribution, but this too is starting to cause serious issues, we re clearly over producing, and over consuming it, particularly in developed nations such as ours, but there are caveats with this to, some still are struggle with meeting their food needs, and yes some are due to the facts you ve stated, i.e. illness, mental health, addiction, etc etc etc, baring in mind, food insecurities can also play a part in triggering these issues

    again, money is our chosen medium, and the fact we ve rapidly increased our global money supplies over the last few decades, and yet, we re still experiencing food insecurities, including in developed nations, we ve clearly made a major balls up, in what we ve been using this money for, as more and more are now simply unable to meet their most critical of needs, as discussed, i.e. property, health care, food etc etc etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭sam t smith


    I suppose he is as entitled to ‘game the system’ as anyone.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    With the greatest of respect,almost noone i know on the min wage gets 40 hours a week


    Businesses hide behind various laws/contracts to avoid having to pay holidays/any time off if possible.....the plight of min wage workers (many deemed essential for cv19 purposes) is much worse when examined closely



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well then, name these companies that 'brag about getting people from Latvia etc that have poor English and don’t understand what their entitled to etc'

    It's easy to throw stuff like that around. Back it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    Most Meat Factories, Fruit Picking Organisations, Security companies be three areas where its rampant .

    Lot of sharp practice in hospitality also . The Irish generally wont put with it but those coming from Latvia, Bulgaria etc have average to poor English are ripe to be rode by unscrupulous employers. They are coming from desperate situations in their countries so they will put up with it for a certain period .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    ...

    Post edited by Kermit.de.frog on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    What I believe is the problem is how we view jobs and tasks. Furthermore, most people can perform a minimum-wage job with very little mental effort. Jobs paying higher wages usually require a higher level of education or analytical abilities. Some jobs do not take into consideration stress or the physical aspects of the job. Some could be worked to the bone for poor pay, while others sit all day on a chair, fiddling with things on a computer. A physical job should be paid more since it is harder work, but that is not the case in most cases,. Changing wages in some sectors would require fundamentally rethinking how they affect people's health and physical bodies, but employers would have to change their behavior too. Employers are also reticent to pay higher wages. Since we put capitalism and commercialism above people's lives in many ways. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    highly subsidised by the state through HAP.

    This is a problem.

    No reason to lower rents because what the tenant can't afford the tax payer shores up. Should be rentals workers can afford.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,225 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    If you are earning minimum wage, what would make you think you should expect average standards?

    Average includes people earning higher and people earning lower. If you are getting minimum, why would you expect to be higher than someone else who isn't at minimum level?



  • Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭livingdgx




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,225 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    Whos going to question it when it works out just as good the employee, WFP is not taken into account for full medical card, Student Grants, rent allowance etc..., so the employer down the road who offers a reasonable living wage at interview and the employee under same circumstance's takes the job can end up taking home the same wage as someone claiming WFP, but as the wage is taxable (WFP isn't) and 100% of this is taken into account when applying for above can lose out in getting the benefits, i think one of the above post by ChocolateIce as already mention similar, this particle employer as been in business 20 yrs, since WFP started this as always been his approach.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    20 years ago, people weren't as clued up on their rights.

    He'd probably be wise to change his ways now before someone he doesn't offer a job to takes a case against him to the WRC under the Employment Equality Acts. They can be awarded up to €12,697.

    Example of such a case:

    and reaction:

    https://thoughtleadership.leman.ie/post/102ek1k/interviews-what-not-to-ask

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Which she wouldn't have gotten if the interviewer hadn't asked such inappropriate questions in the first place, even qualified their questions by stating in advance they knew they shouldn't be asking them!

    “I shouldn’t be asking you this, but…. Are you a married woman?’ Do you have children? How old are your children?”

    What the hell were they thinking?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    We are a very soft society if someone gets over 7 k for being asked if she was married and had kids, there was a time when he would have been told to mind his own business because it was nothing to do with the interview and that would be the end of it.

    But now everyone wants money for jam and its the rest of us that foot the bill.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Instead of aiming your ire at the person who was asked inappropriate questions in an interview setting, why don't you aim it at the person who asked her the inappropriate questions in the first place? Your ire is misplaced.

    This woman didnt go into this interview, looking for a way to make money out of it. She felt she was discriminated against on grounds of family status during the interview and she took a case, which she was entitled to do. The case was found in her favour. Women are far too frequently discriminated against if they have children or are of childbearing age, so good on her for standing up for herself.

    The lesson here is, if you're an employer, don't ask candidates (of any gender) questions about their marital or family status during an interview, unless you're prepared to risk the interviewee bringing a case to the WRC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭bertiebomber


    Quite a few youngsters on minimum wage have the most up to date Iphones and Nike trainers dont feel a bit sorry for them. Their priorities are skewed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't agree their priorities are skewed. Youngsters that still live at home while also working should be able to have some of the nicer things in life.

    They will have serious responsibilities for long enough.

    When we were youngsters my mother worked by the rule hand up 30% / save 30% / enjoy the rest.

    And if that means they spend "the rest" on an expensive phone or a pair of designer shoes, fair play to them, they earned it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    Many of them have given up saving for a home as they'll never manage it.

    Might as well have a phone to look at whilst their in their Tent by the riverbank at night time meanwhile Larry Goodman etc can collect the rent on his hundreds of properties.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,452 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If he's asking those questions at an interview in Ireland, he's a very foolish and incompetent boss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭893bet


    People make poor choices when young (often driven by poor choices that were made by their parents) and end up in poor paid jobs long term. You average income over your life is often defined by the decisions made aged 16-22 (not always but for the most part).


    Its also worth nothing that if everyone stopped making the “poor choices” (by poor choices I mean not doing pursuing a in demand trade) and ended up pursuing higher paid options then the labour supply would chance and those jobs would no longer pay as well and the worse paying jobs would be forced to pay more to attract people.


    Everyone can’t be an Engineer/accountant/dentist etc etc etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭cafflingwunts


    Derrycourt.

    Securitas.

    Noonan.

    Synergy.

    MCR Security

    Those are some of the biggest minimum wage employers in Dublin alone and they have an abundance of exploited workers with barely any English.

    (And before some smart arse posts a link to their latest job offering on jobs.ie with a 15p/h start rate, they hire these people exclusively through word of mouth)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Its a national scandal but no-one cares... I remember here in a thread about Dublin inadequate Airport salary of €14 an hour some ignorant arrogant bollix said... he replied how he had spent years in college... pirck... not every person can go to college...

    race to the bottom...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I do not blame them at all... whatever works... we need to nurture our talent... all human...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,409 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    It's a simple numbers game, and a simply fact that the world would not function without everyone playing their part. The argument that the thousands working in McDonalds , Supermarkets, Restaurants ect should go become Doctors is a poor argument.

    The Government should supplement the wages of those on minimum wage, through a savings scheme of some sort. 500 a month tax free, that the individual can cash out after 5 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Same could be said for some people who haven't experienced working a shite job for shite pay.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,284 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Minimum wage is for kids,no adult paying bills should be working for it and by taking these jobs the practice is been encouraged.

    I run a small retail business, we pay around 12 an hour, all my competitors are paying the minimum. We have way less turnover of staff, less absences and less expense on having extra staff to train in. Minimum wage is counter productive for everyone imo.



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