Minimum Wage - How can you survive ?

FunLover18

Most people with a choice would not do minimum wage, "unskilled" jobs for minimum wage but it's fine for the people who don't have a choice.

Weezer22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994749#Comment_118994749

That's true, we are responsible for own choices, but sometimes things just don't work out. Like if you spend 4 or so years in college only to graduate and find that there's no demand for people in your field. I see your point about people making poor choices when they're young, but honestly I still don't think they should be breaking their backs for minimum wage and still being told that it's their fault for not working harder when they were 18.

Viscount Aggro

I know a couple of guys who choose not to work.

They have done the sums, too much to lose with dole, medical card, HAP.

Its a **** attitude to have.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994749#Comment_118994749

There were comments spouting 'lazy' etc..

If you are working a long hour low pay job and your partner is too, if you have one, when's a good time to jack it in and go to uni? As long as you didn't leave school at 16 or so to help the family. Its doable of course but its not always as simple as deciding.

I remember all the out of work IT lads in the early 90's. Degree, but only minimum/low wage work due to a glut. Lots of factors as you say.

A working person should be able to afford rent, food etc. without the tax payer chipping in.

Galwayguy35

Depends what the minimum wage job is, working in a meat factory for 10.50 is a lot harder than Mcdonalds or Supermacs.

When I worked minimum wage jobs I did lots of overtime and yes you would be tired but was still pulling a decent livable wage at the end of the week.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994844#Comment_118994844

The college issue is a wider society issue to be fair. Society shouldn't be telling people that college is the answer, because most college degrees are worth little when it comes to getting a job and living a decent life. I went to college a few years ago as a mature student, worked my arse off to get my degree, and constantly improve as I went along, only to struggle to get work afterwords. I only managed to get one interview in said field out of a few hundreds applications. I eventually ended up doing some bar work for awhile, which didn't work out, as I couldn't get accommodation in the area. Now I'm back to square one, and all those years of fighting seem like they were worth nothing. All I could think of since then is that I should have done a trade instead, as it would of bee worth so much more to me in the long run, and I think that that's likely true for most people who go to college these days.

SCOOP 64

My boss knows how to play the system, at interviews always ask do you have kids? yes, is your wife working?, no,( if the answer is no, and yes to these questions then you wont be offered the job), then offers job at minimum wage, obviously interviewee says cant work for that wage i have rent, wife and kids to support, boss replies have you heard of WFP?, this will push up your wage ,he actually works the amount out for them at interview, so pays a low wage gets government to pay rest ,win,win.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994481#Comment_118994481

Semantics. There are plenty of safety nets for people in need, and while some will inevitably fall between the cracks the vast majority will be cared for adequately.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994844#Comment_118994844

still being told that it's their fault for not working harder when they were 18

Who is telling them that? There's a lot of things being inserted in posts here as if they've been said, but haven't.

It's not about working harder, anyway. It's about having a plan with a destination in mind. That's the true way to get ahead in life. Having the ambition and dedication to expand your skills and education to meet the needs of that ambition. Took me a long time to understand and appreciate that fully.

We've all had rocky periods in our lives. I failed my first year in college. Failed my entire course, in fact. Switched to a different major, barely scraped through the next two years, failed to qualify for the diploma stage (back then the Bachelor degree was segmented), and had to work for a year in a job I hated, so that I could return to college to get the diploma but not manage the degree. Came back later as a mature student for the degree finisher, then later again, the honours degree, and later again, for the Masters... etc. None of it was easy for me. Neither has the following twenty odd years.. but that's life. You deal with it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994982#Comment_118994982

There were comments spouting 'lazy' etc..

Which is an incredible stretch to suggest that they were justifying people being in poverty.

SCOOP 64

Wow must say you have turned out to be a great person ,well done.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995346#Comment_118995346

Semantics? Um.. wow.

While some will inevitably fall through the cracks.. would that be the half million people living in poverty? or the couple hundred thousand who end up with malnutrition in this country?

You made the claim that nobody was starving in this country, which is blatantly false. Food poverty is a serious issue for many people in this country... and no system is going to be reliable enough to provide for everyone concerned. Mistakes will happen, as will inefficiencies.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995531#Comment_118995531

Oh, grow up. ffs,

There's nothing in here about what kind of person I am, or the standard of my life.

Weezer22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995522#Comment_118995522

well.. it kind of implies that they deserve their situation because they don't work hard.

And good for you with your Masters degree. Obviously you did work hard to obtain that. But unfortunately a lot of people don't have the same opportunity. Once you're not in college and stuck in a dead end, low wage job, its hard to drop all that and go back to college full time, especially if you have rent to pay, kids, car loans etc. I'm not saying you probably didn't struggle with those things either, but you can't deny that it's incredibly difficult to manage and many people simply can't make the decision to go back to college. That is why I don't think that it is fair for people to try to justify their poverty due to their 'choices'. Not everyone has the choice to further their education and work their way up.

People in this forum are calling people lazy and complaining that they don't work hard enough. Scroll up a few posts and you'll see that i'm not "inserting things as if they've been said".

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995560#Comment_118995560

As I said previously: you will always have people living in poverty or around the line. It’s inevitable.

Fine, I will rephrase my claim then: nobody in this country needs to starve because there are plenty of measures in place. If they do then that’s a result of bad choices and of having refused help. So feel free to respond with an essay.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995522#Comment_118995522

When people are quick to pull that out chances are they couldn't give a **** about the less well off or any genuine discussion.

Exhibit A:

And they get the social housing, medical card etc - no matter whether the reason is an impairment, or that they just couldn't be arsed bettering themselves. Some I know deliberately never earn over 18k so they can avoid paying tax.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995804#Comment_118995804

Yep.

When people have to choose between bills and food they can line up outside the charities.

Thats the dream alright.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995648#Comment_118995648

well.. it kind of implies that they deserve their situation because they don't work hard.

Except, the previous posts weren't aimed at those in poverty, but those on minimum wage, which don't always go hand-in-hand. The issue of poverty was raised later in the thread for a separate point.

I'm not saying you probably didn't struggle with those things either, but you can't deny that it's incredibly difficult to manage and many people simply can't make the decision to go back to college.

I got my MBA through work, as it was a requirement for that company if I wanted a management position.. and I didn't take off time from work to do it. I still worked my 40-50 hours a week while also studying. I'm not saying it's easy. haha. Oh, good Lord, it wasn't.

There is no one-fit-all. I know a single mother who managed to study while working at a cafe, because the cafe had long periods where it was quiet.. so she was able to do the work needed for her degree. Whereas I know others who don't have such a situation, and can't find any spare time for a university course, however, are doing a range of online qualifications on their phones when they have some free time (flexible learning options). None of this is a suggestion that it's easy... but this is the world we live in. It's a highly regulated world, one that is becoming more controlled as time goes by, which means that degrees, or technical/industry certifications are going to be required for most jobs beyond the most basic of salaries/wages.

That is why I don't think that it is fair for people to try to justify their poverty due to their 'choices'.

I'm getting the feeling that we have a different concept of what poverty entails. There is no need to justify anything if you're in a situation of poverty. It is what it is, and it comes down to individual circumstances. Getting yourself out of that position is what matters, if you can. (Naturally, I don't mean you, personally)

People in this forum are calling people lazy and complaining that they don't work hard enough. Scroll up a few posts and you'll see that i'm not "inserting things as if they've been said".

Yup, and they were being called lazy for being on minimum wage. Not for being in poverty. I know people who are on minimum wage, who come from wealthy families, or have partners who are earning very good money. I wouldn't call them lazy for being on minimum wage, but I can understand why others might... but in any case, they're not "poor" as in poverty... Different strokes for different folks, and all that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995827#Comment_118995827

Which doesn't relate, even slightly, to what I wrote. Show me a few quotes directly justifying a persons position in poverty.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995804#Comment_118995804

Well, with that attitude, I'll simply ignore you. Although it's worth noting that I replied to you previously with a few sentences and a link... and you ignored it completely, so I suspect it doesn't matter what's written, because you'll get annoyed regardless.

As for an essay.. it's sad that the ability of people to read has declined so much that anything on this thread could be considered the length of an "essay".

babyducklings1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995095#Comment_118995095

Didn’t think they were allowed to ask these kinds of questions at interviews.

SCOOP 64

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995972#Comment_118995972

I was, seem at time all done very casually in a light hearted conversion.

y0ssar1an22

minimum wage currently nets you about 19500. i used this calculator and have not checked its veracity (presuming it is calculated on a 40 hour week for 48 weeks)

https://salaryaftertax.com/ie/salary-calculator

thats 1625 net per month.

average monthly rent is at 1516 per month (https://www.thejournal.ie/daft-rental-report-all-time-low-5596453-Nov2021/#:~:text=The%20average%20rent%20nationally%20now,of%2011.9%25%20on%20last%20year.)

so if you are on minimum wage and renting out a place on your own you have €109 per month to live on and pay all the bills. not feasible in the slightest.

to answer your question in the title, if you are on minimum wage (and renting alone as my addendum), you cant.

(realistic) solutions (you cant give everyone on minimum wage a house of their own for nothing) (and also presuming there is no ability to get a higher paying job):

house share - with 4 sharing you net 1246 per month after rent, plus the bills also being split.

move to a county with lower rent (provided there are jobs available), and also house share. that'll net you more.

if you're a couple, think about taking a tenant in via the rent a room, and take all that tax free.

regardless, compromises would need to be made about where and who to live with.

questionmark?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995095#Comment_118995095

If someone asks those questions then it's good reason to not work for them.

babyducklings1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995984#Comment_118995984

Light hearted conversation or not didn’t think they could go there on these questions. Interview bias and all that.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995938#Comment_118995938

I was talking about there being people with a bad attitude towards the worse off. I gave an example. They dismiss them and believe its a choice.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995095#Comment_118995095

Well, he's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996079#Comment_118996079

Firstly, that figure is the average for properties currently being advertised, not "the average rent".

Secondly, single people on minimum wage aren't supposed to be able to afford the average rent. The clue is in the name.

Thirdly, moving to a different country and earning minimum wage will likely mean earning a lot less.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995938#Comment_118995938

I had looked at it, which is why I changed my argument to “nobody needs to starve” instead “nobody is starving” in this country. The main factors listed were illness, mental health and addiction issues. An income increase would not make any difference here, nor does it help people who simply don’t know what nutrients they need to be healthy. This isn’t a monetary factor but the result of support services either being inadequate or refused.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996079#Comment_118996079

Thats rent of an average property which is probably a 3 or 4 bed semi d. So renting one room in the average rental property i c 500 euro per month. I suggest you now redo your sums. Also the rental price if you have dependents(ie a family) is highly subsidised by the state through HAP.

For example a family with 3 children will get 1300 euro pm towards rent in dublin. Shucks even a single person in a one bedroom in cavan gets 389 euro pm

The real sweet spot for entitlements in this country is to be on a non jobseekers payment(eg lone parent of carers'), work minimum wage 19 hours or less PW. Get all entitlement such as medical card and housing supports and if kids get a massive income boost from Family Income Support. I have done the sums. Incomes massively exceed full time minimum wage work and is on par with the income of a basic nurse working full time(and for added kick in the nuts, the tax the nurse pays is subsidising this)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996126#Comment_118996126

Fair enough. I thought you were being specific to such remarks about people in poverty.