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Working From Home Megathread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,447 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    That list is terrible. If I think about all of the people I've known who've been working effectively from home, every one of them could be "gotten at" for several of those reasons.

    Concerns regarding this and that being valid reasons to refuse remote working - this gives so much scope for an employer. If I was a dinosaur senior manager dead set against WFH, it would take very little effort to come up with a narrative on which to refuse WFH.

    Also, inordinate distance between location and the office as a reason for refusal - so people with small commutes are more likely to be granted WFH than those with long commutes. People with long commutes continue to do them or else move closer to the office. Yeah, that'll help with climate change, traffic congestion, family life and the housing crisis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    Yeah, I'm not sure we'll get much flexibility in reality. What they'll say is "your team is in Monday and Tuesday, rest of the time you can choose" which would only be a couple of extra days. That's going to be a pain, because my husband is likely to have the same arrangement where he'll be working hybrid but will be told his days, and it'll be just our luck that we'll be told the same days to be WFO. There will be the usual heart attack commute home to make it on time to pick up from two separate childminders before 6.30. Oh joy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    My thoughts exactly. But I did sense this would be ultimately up to the employers to decide. The rest is just government window dressing to look as if they give a shite about employees (they don’t, all the state cares about is raiding our pay packets at the end of each month)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭MSVforever


    It's a medium sized finance company (Irish owned).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    It remains to be seen what "inordinate" means, and that might depend on the employer. Do they have a lot of hastily arranged meetings with clients that can't be done remotely? Then you living in Kerry and having an office in Dublin might not be a goer. But living in Meath/Kildare might. Does your employer sometimes need you to come in the next day for a team collaboration session? Then WFH from London might not be a goer, but WFH from Kerry might.

    It will all depend on how "friendly" the WRC is to the employee. There's lots of scope for interpretation here. And I think a middle manager who says "I cannot possibly allocate work unless everybody is in the office every day" might get short shrift from the WRC. But an employer who says that their employee is working in a flat with five others might reasonably say that they are concerned with confidentiality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭Shuffl_in


    It will be interesting to see if different public sector departments implement different WFH guidelines or if they'll try to keep it uniform.

    I'm on the Mobility Scheme for other departments in my area and neighbouring areas, just as a bit of an insurance policy (everybody should be on it). If I hear that another department has a better WFH policy I'll certainly be 'unholding' my application.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭thefallingman


    are masks mandatory in work now, not with public ?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    In my company they have said that moving (far) away for WFH isn't acceptable without explicit permission to do so.

    Basically they say that you need to be "available to come to the office if required" in terms of WFH.

    Not a case of "Get here within the hour" but certainly "we need you onsite tomorrow for XYZ"

    So in Ireland , most places would meet that criteria , but in other countries you'd obviously be restricted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Ohmeha


    Email received today from HR confirming return to office over the next month with hybrid options only upon approval from management so open season for any anti-WFH managers to refuse continuation of WFH. Staff with medical conditions, vulnerable family members and childcare challenges who have been WFH since 2020 have nothing guaranteed now and not happy with the email today

    Then in some contrast another employer in a similar industry today confirmed voluntary return to the office until the end of March which will be reviewed that month depending on the covid situation and emphasised no staff WFH should be under any obligation to return in the short term



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The stated plan for our company last August/September was a hybrid model - 4 days at home, 1 day in the office, but not in a hard and fast way. If someone needed to do 5 days one week and 2 or 3 the next, no issue.

    Exceptions for people to be fully WFH are based on manager approval, but most are eager for it to continue.

    Within six months we'll only have enough office space for about a third of the company anyway, and they're not planning on doing much about it, so the policy is more about keeping people out of the office than forcing them in. The aim will be getting the whole company together every 6-8 weeks, but outside of that we have no need to all be geographically together.

    No particular bars on working abroad - we have a number of employees all over the place - though obviously it still needs to be flagged & approved.

    I expect the rules for us will evolve over time as the legal situation does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If only there has been some non-solicitors pointing out all these points as significant over the past two years....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The move to WFH for substantial numbers of employees in lots of organisations is definitely unchartered territory, and was not considered in producing the current regulations. We need an update.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The employer has a legal obligation to ensure that your workplace is safe, even with WFH.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    With other non-solicitors pointing out that neither covid nor wfh absolved employers from their legal responsibilities



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    They really can’t decide where people chose to live, can they?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But the H&S Act could be amended so that that would not apply in cases where the employee requested not to work in an office.

    Orherwise, as per earlier posts the grounds on which wfh can be refused are practical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭Lollipop95


    I have to go back working in the office 3 days a week and 2 at home. I’ve been fully remote for over a year and I really love it. I’d much rather it than commuting an hour to and from the office. My boss wants us back in for “team morale” even though there’s not many of us at all in the department. Only for the fact I live so far from the office is why my boss agreed to 2 days from home, otherwise it’d be 5 full days in the office. I’ll miss full time wfh if I’m honest.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You’d think that hybrid working was a new thing, brought on by Covid. It’s really not that hard to organise, and deal with the H&S and GDPR etc. Many companies have been doing it for many years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bit naive.

    The difficulty with organising it depends to a considerable extent on the employees circumstances and the suitability of their home. Some companies may have been doing it, now all companies are at least going to have to consider it.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Well - They kind of can to an extent.

    It's a global company so a lot of what was said was aimed more at US based people really - Moving a 1,500 miles away to a different State is a big difference to moving out of Dublin to live in West-Meath or whatever.

    They are hiring people who are fully remote, living no where near an office location , but what they are saying to existing employees is that they cannot simply relocate without getting agreement from management which is fair enough.

    I haven't heard of anyone who has asked being turned down as yet , but you can't just move really far away on the QT and expect everything to stay the same in all other respects.

    Those people that are hired or officially move to somewhere far away will get contracts based on their location and will get paid expenses if they have to travel to the office etc. , that's why it needs to be "with the agreement of Management"

    If they are paying New York wages and someone decides to relocate to Rural Idaho then that person can expect a new contract if they want to go through with the move. Salary levels aren't a massive issue in Ireland in terms of regional differences though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    And those who've been doing it for years have good procedures for ensuring that the home workplace is safe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,193 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    is this thread full of people who hate their workplace or something? i can only assume thats it. Team morale is very important, nothing worse than an unhappy working enironment.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My morale has been great as I don't have to listen to office politics or mind-numbing chats about the latest episode of Eastenders etc.

    Thankfully, morale is not one of the criteria that the WRC are likely to accept based on the proposed legislation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Can't see Governments exposing large numbers to musculo-skeletal injuries, which the health service will have to pay to treat. Employers will still need to ensure that workplaces are safe. It's a bit trickier and more expensive to do it with WFH, but employers will be creaming it on office cost savings in the long term.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,193 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Ah yes, the flood of WRC appeals that the posters of this thread are readying.

    At least all of you that sneer at your work colleagues can be safe in the knowledge people probably dont want you back in any more than you want to be back. So it should be a win win.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭Shuffl_in


    Full of people who have experienced a much greater quality of life as a result of working from home. People who for the first time got to see loved ones more than work colleagues. People who don't have to spend hours in the car/bus/train to do what they can do from home.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Touch a nerve did I, sorry if I offended your taste in soaps



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    if your morale is based on being tied to a physical workplace the man I think that’s a problem



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hence the reason why it is important to go back to the office if your home is not suitable for wfh.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Can you please confirm you are back in the office this week? Your employer has been ripping you off for too long.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I think it's the somewhat limited definition of "working environment" that some companies seem to see that people are reacting to.

    Clearly, enjoying your work and having a good relationship with your team mates and management are elements that are conducive to a healthy productive work experience , but the implication from some places that this can only be fully achieved by having everyone co-located in the office every single day is simply wrong and wildly outdated.

    This whole movement should be about providing flexibility to people. Different people are motivated by different things and those motivations change over time as well.

    A "Happy working environment" should be striving to accommodate those differing motivations and desires as much as possible - Doing so will be far better for the Corporate bottom line than attempting to apply a rigid "one size fits all" approach to work practices and individual behaviours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    Yeah the team morale thing is a nonsense.

    I love my job, and I can genuinely say that my team are some of the nicest people I have come across. I've been to their weddings and family funerals, and we have chosen to socialise outside of work. In the first few weeks of lockdown, I really missed being in the office (though that might have been because I was trying to childmind and work and be teacher all the same time). We've made the effort though and have zoom coffee once a week. I still feel like they're my friends.

    As time has gone on I've realised that, despite the close bond with my workmates, the many benefits of WFH has simply made me a happier, less stressed, healthier person. I still produce the same amount of work, and although I don't have as many insights into what everyone else is working on, I know that being in the office once or twice a week will remediate that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Have a pint and relax with all the money your going to save on heating, electricity and not renting out an office space to your employer for free!! You can now rent that precious space out to someone else!!!! You still can't get over the fact that your employer saves money by you working from home.

    Everyone knows employers are going to have to inspect homes and still provide a safe place to work. Calm down. The majority of workers will have a proper work space where they can work from home and the minority that don't can go to office, some may move home to a bigger space if they want to work from home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,193 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Like i said, no one will miss that sneering. No matter how clever you think you are.

    Some of you appear to mistakenly thing im advocating a 5 day a week return to the office, im not, a couple of days from home would suit me fine, i have a purpose built home office outside the main house and all the equipment i could need, but most people dont. I also believe people work better collaboratively and team morale is important, some of you have different experiences but that doesnt make mine wrong, i am probably coming at it from a different angle as well. But ill leave it at that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,193 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    so you also agree you need to be in a few days a week, and if so is team morale not important in that context, is it not better to look forward to seeing the people you are going to the office to meet with rather than dreading it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,193 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    If thats what you took from that then the problem is your ability to comprehend and articulate yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,193 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    I have too, it has been great, but i never saw it as a forever thing, enjoy it for what it is, but once things go back to normal there should be some office attendance on a regular basis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    It has zero to do with morale. If the productivity element of all of this is at the same levels or higher than working in an office then the boss should be listening to their team members and facilitating remote working.

    Some bosses will use morale as and excuse but it's a power thing on their behalf more often than not. Or else they aren't able to manage remote staff.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,084 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I believe that reading comprehension issues will be used by many employers to prove that certain individuals are not suitable for WFH.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    That's what YOU want. That's not what everyone wants or needs. The specific team that I work in, is a technology team that's a mixture of engineers and project managers. We've settled into a groove that's highly collaborative, open and friendly but also non-disruptive. There is a daily team meeting that starts on time whether everyone is there or not, gets everyone's input and then ends. It's scheduled for 30 minutes but usually finishes in 15. It's not hijacked by people chatting or going off topic. Throughout the day if anyone needs to speak to someone else, they can - but in their own time. If someone wants to ask me a question I can tell them I'll be available in ten minutes. Or an hour. Or tomorrow.

    On-site, this is a much more chaotic day. Meetings start late, they finish late and have a pile of nonsense chat that is only of interest to two attendees. Throughout the working day, if you don't have people coming to your desk and imposing themselves on you to ask questions every 30 minutes, you still have the background noise of other people talking and asking eachother questions. This kind of environment probably suits some individuals and some roles. There are other people and other roles where it provides basically no value. You don't need to be standing in the same room to be collaborative.

    We've all expressed the desire to do on-site days, but in a way that's not a regular day. Because for a "regular day", you'll get better work done at home. Instead, everyone comes on site, we run through a few meetings, workshops and planning, and then we go out on the piss. Social cohesion is a great way to grease the wheels to ensure that when working remotely everyone gets along. But just being onsite on a regular working day, is not conducive to building social cohesion.

    99% of bosses who want people back on site are either control freaks who cannot figure out how to measure productivity without breathing down peoples' necks, or they're complete extroverts for whom going to work is a social event more than a way to earn a living.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,193 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    You wrote a long post purporting to disagree with me yet appear to agree that there should be some office attendance on a regular basis.

    As for your 99% of bosses stat ill give that the consideration it deserves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭Shuffl_in


    Leo Varadkar: “We’d intend to have this legislated before the summer recess and certainly in place this year.”

    I'm pretty sure this was originally to be in place by April? Any guesses as to when it will actually be in place?

    Am told (more speculation than official) that we'll be brought back in full time by March. When legislation is in they'll review.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭innuendo141


    Back in the office full time from next Monday with a bang. Will be interested to see how requests are rejected where I work once we are "allowed" request WFH.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,084 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Surprised that no one of has commented on the right to request remote work only applying after you have worked in a place for six months.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is going to be a great big game of musical chairs. People will resign if employers are inflexible and take wfh or jobs closer to where they live. Others will fill the jobs they leave because they can’t get a wfh job/they want to work in an office/the job is close to where they live. Those that want to wfh will hopefully find enough jobs, employers will most likely find people will to work in the offices and everyone will be happy, until they aren’t. Let’s see what affect wfh v office attendance has on promotion, or redundancies. Allowances have been made for any short comings in training and productivity, when demand/businesses ramp up, I doubt those allowances will be viewed so benignly. So, it’s happy days as long as the music is playing, let’s see who is left standing when it stops.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not sure why that would make a difference to be honest.

    Anyone applying to a place who wants 100% remote or hybrid, will state that during the interview process and as recently reported by recruitment agencies, if its not on the table, candidates just won't apply.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    If it's an unhappy environment, it won't be made any happier by dragging people back into the office against their will. My working morale has never been happier than during the past 2 years, and the same is true for the entire team. Nobody is in a hurry to go back. We have a Teams meeting once a week to talk about what's going on and make plans and chat, with ad-hoc meetings/phone calls scattered throughout the week.



  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I suppose that would only apply to new entrants who have signed up for an office based job, if wfh is included in the job offer, then it does not count. It cannot be used to make a new entrant who joined with wfh as one of the contracted terms & conditions go to the office full time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    I’ve also regularly seen the very opposite of “team morale” in probably any office I’ve worked in- there are personality clashes and dislikes in practically all offices of any size. Just human nature. I’ve no doubt most people here have too.

    Very often pretty far from the Waltons mountain “everyone collaborating” vision some like to paint it as.



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