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Working From Home Megathread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,546 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    So the government brought in a toothless and pointless piece of legislation? Wow that almost never happens!

    Yes I am being sarcastic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,332 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    so many people in this thread know better than the management in their company, you'd wonder why they aren't the management themselves?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,086 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    The work is not as good as it was pre COVID is my experience. As a manager, I find you have fewer tools to address this and end up having to do more work.

    What does this mean?

    I've found Covid and the move to remote working was an absolute game-changer. I went from (in my last employment):

    • 5 days in the office,
    • car parking based on seniority,
    • no possibility of remote work,
    • things had to be done a certain way because things have always been done this way and there shall be no change

    to

    • remote work several days a week,
    • staff expected to use an app to request parking, and it was allocated based on necessity
    • several days remote work (leading to an increase in productivity!)
    • massive transformation in how things were done - with changes often being proposed by staff and mid-ranking management, not senior management.

    That last one included stuff some of us had been trying to bring in for years and had gotten nowhere with. Just one tiny example - suddenly it was no longer actually necessary to print out X thing, sign it, have it countersigned by someone more senior, then file it away, even though you'd been told only a couple of months before that this was the system and it had always worked, so why change it, the auditors wouldn't like it?

    Now, though? You could miraculously do this all by email! And the sky didn't fall in!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,086 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    I am the management. I fully support remote working, because it's so much more beneficial than 5 days in the office for no particular reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,280 ✭✭✭techdiver


    I am in a leadership position in my job. I wear both hats of day to day duties mixed with team management.

    Bad managers are the ones that cannot run the show remotely and try to attribute loss of productivity to an easy scapegoat (remote working) as opposed to taking a macro look at other variables. Also don't think I'm attacking first line team managers, who generally have their teams backs and are flexible. In my experience it's the group managers and higher who generally have their heads up their asses.

    A bad remote worker will be a bad in person worker also. By enforcing return to office mandates you don't achieve what you think you are achieving and only alienate good team members. They will remember that the next time they are asked to cover out of hours issues of go the extra mile to meet a deadline.

    Companies are destroying good will with these braindead moves.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,806 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    There's a certain Irony, in a social internet platform, saying its not possible to engage with people remotely, across the internet. But the context is they are trying to cut their staff numbers, due to the other difficulties they are in. So they are also saying it doesn't matter if you are in the office either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,806 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You mean the way they dictate

    planning between residential and commercial
    Employment rights and conditions
    Hours of work, Leave and holidays
    Health and safety

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,530 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    I find the bare minimum is done with initiative falling by the wayside.

    Only time limited tasks are prioritized and with me being cc'd on emails saying "my manager asked for X so can I have X" without any independent thought whatsoever.

    The forward looking strategic work? That's really fallen by the wayside



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,806 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Dunno what any of that has to do with WFH...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,086 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    And yet according to the financial pages, most big companies - the MNCs with the flagship offices that need to be filled - have record profits. Not enough profits for the shareholders - but that's a different issue!

    So that's your experience of your own organisation. It does not tally with my experience of my last employer, my current one, or with the experiences of many others on here. In fact, I find the opposite. That hour to 2.5 hours I'm saving by not commuting several times a week gives me both energy and time - where I can often actually focus on the 'not immediate'.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,806 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think a lot of tech area having staff cuts because they want to reposition the business a variety of ways. They don't want the overhead of retraining staff or cultivating new skill sets.

    The only issue with that is if you keep doing that, people will leave the industry and not come back and you'll be left with a skills shortage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,806 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Some places are using RTO as a means to cull numbers. That's going do damage organisational reputation at least in the jobs market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,530 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    I guess an obvious dynamic is someone who doesn't manage is, imo, never going to entertain the idea that there are issues.

    Similarly, if a manager does, the accusations are of wanting to micromanage etc.

    I think the next dip in the Labour Market will be interesting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,458 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    TikTok also claim productivity is higher in the office. This is demonstrably false but doesn't stop them from saying it uncontested.

    How do you know it's false?

    Do you have access to TikTok's internal KPIs that measure it ?

    The thing about WFH is that there are so many variables that make it either beneficial or not from the point of view of the employee or employer.

    No one size fits all.

    Certain companies, certain departments, certain people may perform better at home and others may perform better in the office.

    This place has always been full of blanket statements about how WFH is better or office is better.

    But it's all moot, it all depends on the circumstances.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,133 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Very few posters here understand nuiance in any shape or form. Makes me think that there's a certain personality type which really like WFH.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,643 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Great post. Agree with this so much

    A lot of low performers don't like being managed at all and cry "micromaegement" at the first sign of an objective or timeline

    I am often reminded of the stat that, when surveyed, 90% of workers believe they perform above average :)

    (the irony is the other 10% are probably the most of the ones who actually do)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,086 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    I'm a manager. It's not hard to know who pulls their weight, who goes above and beyond, and who is just coasting. It is, in fact, part of my job (not a huge part, I'm at a level where I've people to do that for me.)

    Newsflash: The behaviour doesn't change depending on whether or not they're in the office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,844 ✭✭✭Trampas


    I know someone who joined over Covid and was told hybrid role and 1 day a week in office. Got told that it’s going to 3 days now and said person is starting to look at changing jobs. Works longer hours at home better desk set up at home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,806 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Quite the leap to imply you have to have personality disorder to have the ability to work both remotely and in the office. If that's what you mean.

    For me micromanaging has nothing to do with objectives or timelines. In fact definition it's the antithesis of that.

    ".…excessive focus on details at the expense of the "big picture" and larger goals...."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,280 ✭✭✭techdiver


    So to prove (or indeed disprove a point) you have admitted that there is no metric to prove one way or another. Only someone nieve would believe a company that states that they know why they are not seeing results they want. By the way it's a typical tactic of corporate higher up to move the goalposts when it suits their narrative.

    As I've said before (and I know firsthand),return to office mandates are nothing to do with productivity. It's a bait and switch for other reasons, primarily reduction in force.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/glebtsipursky/2022/11/03/workers-are-less-productive-working-remotely-at-least-thats-what-their-bosses-think/

    TLDR: Insecure managers can't handle their reduced influence in the workplace.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,012 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I was at lunch with a manager who is complaining about people working from home.

    The main reason was people talking about school runs, walking the dog, making the dinner etc.

    I explained that when he is going for coffee breaks or a 15 minute chat at someone's desk, those people are doing those things instead.

    Seemed to blow his mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,086 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    There are numerous actual studies that demonstrate increased productivity where blended working is available.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,281 ✭✭✭limnam


    I thought it was the fact there's people in your situation in a grubby little bed flat that prevented them from WFH.

    Now it's personality disorders.

    You never cease to amaze.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,643 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Exactly - but sadly lots of employees don't share that view. Clear timelines and objectives mean clear accountability for employees, which as I said, low performers really don't like especially with WFH where it is easier for a poor performer to slide out of doing the work by avoiding answering emails, or avoiding zoom invites. So they cry "micromanagement" to threaten their managers and scare them off holding them accountable for output and results. Unfortunately HR just want no legal problems to deal with so will back off holding people accountable too.

    Less tools for managers to use with these kind of performance issues when WFH as somebody else said above



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,806 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    What you're saying is the organisation didn't (and doesn't) have performance metrics or output metrics. Instead they pretended they did by doing a roll call like primary school, by ad hoc observation of people sitting at their desk in the office.

    They are trying to virtualise that daft approach by trying to do the same via team meetings and emails. Measuring someone's productivity by the number of emails they send and or number of meeting they attend.

    I don't think the "poor performer" is who you think it is in your scenario.

    And you're still using micromanagement incorrectly. Imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,643 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    My point was you can set all the clear output metrics and timelines you want, but if an employee consistently misses them and repeatedly does not deliver you have less tools to deal with it. It's a lot clearer who low performers are when WFH as the output becomes the key metric rather than sitting at a desk/visibility, but unfortunately it is a lot easier to evade accountability too.

    I think you are completely missing my point so will bow out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,546 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    What tools do you normally have at your disposal to deal with someone who consistently misses metrics?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,806 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The point you've actually made is that it was easier for low performers to hide in an office only situation. Because it's wasn't being tracked in the office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,806 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I've just realised why someone I know who does very little, sends so many emails and is in so many meetings.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,086 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Also, IIRC, there's the GDPR breaches that occur at home, and something something AI. 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,133 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Low levels of reading comprehension are also an issue for some people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,785 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Comparing just two years, one to the next, is f*ck all use really. Also note that any countries where it happened to increase year on year are conveniently left off.

    "RW Blowhard In Misleading Use Of Statistics Shocker"

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users Posts: 239 ✭✭Jerry Atrick


    Media ramping up the return to office narrative, where is the green agenda when you actually need it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    All my office staff work at home and have for a long time. I haven't seen any drop in productivity or anything like that, but I'd be very interested to know what the likes of Amazon have found that's to the contrary. I'm sure they have their reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭HurlingBoy


    Getting people back into office is really a way of controlling the poor worker and the poor manager. A bad manager will be a bad manager weather he\she is WFH or in the office. Everyone has a reputation in a office environment. He\she is lazy, he\she is a good worker etc. It's very demoralising for a team if a manager is always working from home, even if they still do nothing in the office they have still have some visibility if they are seen. Company culture is also a contributing factor, bad managers\employees can coast for years without any consequences in certain companies and WFH is adding to this. Companies with agressive review systems will weeds out these workers quickly regardless of WFH policies. The biggest problem for companies is having the same WFH policies for everyone i.e the lazy worker and the strong performer.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Sono


    Getting people back to the office full time is a sure way of trying to accelerate retirements.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭Minier81


    Absolutely right on the retirements. Is it a way of getting out of paying redundancies?! Just get a cohort of the staff to quit?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,816 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Amazon move is a cheap redundancy play. They expect attrition as a result.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Sono


    speaking from my own place, an awful lot of people in their 60’s wfh 4 days a week.

    I am convinced if they were told it was 5 days a week in the office you’d see people retiring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,332 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,083 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    And this would be improved in the office, would it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 239 ✭✭Jerry Atrick


    Print media really cranking up the end of WFH narrative. As usual in this country, they'll dance to whoever plays the sweetest tune.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,785 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Anything that generates the fear/outrage clicks

    Scrap the cap!



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