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Future of Micheal Martin

13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    It's funny listening him harp on about climate change so much. You'd think he's a real eco guy. Reality is FF don't have any other policies that stand out so trying to go so hard on an issue supported so much by the people is an easy vote getter.

    Go Google Micheal Martin Climate Change and search for results pre 2015 and post 2015. You can see basically 0 relevant results pre 2015.

    From 2015 there's lots of quotes "we must act on climate change" etc.

    Climate change has been known for decades. Politicians have been warned for decades about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Woke authoritarian bandwagons are his stock n trade



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "the most spineless and gutless politician to ever lead this country"

    Have you ever noticed how every political leader is called this? Such a redundant statement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,670 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    He is a very bland leader - reminds of John Major, achieved his goal of being Taoiseach tho but not sure if it was deserved

    Done nothing the whole time he has been leading the country bar the odd stuttering speech to buck up the country instilling zero confidence in his leadership - I mean jaysus soon after he took over his own party was falling apart with the scandals

    Compare him to any other (for better or worse) leaders around the world and he pales into insignificance


    (actually Eamon Ryan is probably more insipid than him but thank god not leading and probably not having much say in anything at present)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,796 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Martin replaced the actual worst Taoiseach ever… That was borne out to a good extent pre covid but once the crisis hit…. and when a gun was put to his head, Leo’s legacy will be indelibly borne out as during the biggest modern post war crises of the state and planet, he backed business interests over that of the wellbeing and health of the citizens…unforgivable…

    really showed a lack of backbone, bravery, intelligence, responsibility and gravitas..

    Varadkar I recall when asked admitted that although he has been ‘right a lot of the time’, and…’the Government has made mistakes during the COVID-19 pandemic….’ Yes… the government fûcked up but HE was mostly right….

    that single statement tells you everything you want to know about Leo…

    martin won’t last post pandemic… I just think as a result of the ordeal… him being 61… he’ll walk away



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    This was mentioned earlier comparing MM to Boris.... there is no comparison between politics here in the UK... I see Boris getting a roasting for attending a gig in the UK and he is getting a roasting... the exact same thing happens here and we get waffle...

    accountability....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Most leadership changes here are not heaves. As others have said, sometime in 2023 the party will begin to look at that. There should be an agreed orderly changing of the guard but it's not their biggest problem anyway. That problem is persuading people to vote for the party and there is every chance they will become the third biggest party on a new election. If people want an alternative SF are setting themselves up to be that option so FF have their work cut out to change minds on that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,812 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    MM's critics within FF will be worried if the taoiseachship handover passes with MM still saying he is going to carry on things will just drift on like that till the GE. What may happen is that the anti-Martin figurehead (O'Callaghan?) will lay down an ultimatum at that point: "if he hasn't vacated the leadership in a year's time, I'm going to challenge him."



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    O'Callaghan's stock is gone to shite since the by-election loss on his own patch, of which he was Director of Elections of.

    MM knew full well what he was doing making that appointment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,812 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Well doesn't that maneuvering in intself suggest MM is intending to keep on keeping on? Or maybe he just doesn't want Big Jim to succeed him.

    If Martin is planning to fight on, I wonder does the party have the will to face him down, in the absence of a strong alternative candidate. Now that he has signalled that he may be kinda sorta willing to consider a deal with SF, does that not take the edge off a lot opposition to him? If they continue to do okay in the polls, i.e. not massively worse than FG, is there really an overwhelming case for taking him out?



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  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Not necessarily. Certainly a political move to keep Jim in line. You've barely heard a word from him since.

    The Marc MacSharry's of this world were relying on Jim being the successor I think, and he got the hump because he knows he's not seen a legitimate successor and when Jim was put back in his box, MacSharry and co were stuck with MM as leader with no viable challenger to him.

    Michael McGrath is really the only one you could see as a successor, but he's happy enough to wait it out because anything else would damage him politically if he's unsuccessful.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah, the UK govt is a beacon of accountability...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    My Predictions:

    • Easiest one is that he won't be leader of FF for the next General Election. They're itching to get rid of him even though there is no obvious replacement
    • Therefore he won't stand again for election (as is the tradition with ex-Taoiseagh when they step down as party leaders) - great news for Michael McGrath as he hung on for the final seat in CSC in 2020 and there likely won't be 2 FF seats there next time.
    • As for when he'll be ousted as leader - I think the drumbeat for that will start in earnest when the Dail resumes after its Summer recess. He'll basically be a lame duck Taoiseach between September and December. He might even step down as leader of FF while staying on as Taoiseach in order to allow them to run the election for his successor (similar to Brian Cowen in 2011) before he leaves office.
    • Martin's successor will become the first FF leader never to become Taoiseach




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Any man who can make the call to close the pubs at Christmas in Ireland, cannot be accused of being gutless.

    Martin is some man. Country first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    your right... Boris stood up live on tele and tried to explain... It seems our Simon should do the same... that's accountability...



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    He stood up live on tele and deflected everything, despite his 'apology'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    But he did it... you mentioned "accountability" being able to defect is politics... i think a politician should have balls... remember Hogan he did a runner and got caught in Brussels where he didn't have the protection of politics as we do here....



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    He said that he didn’t know the rules as an excuse to go to a party.

    The rules HE set. After previously lying about whether it was a party at all.

    Genuinely can’t believe there are people here thinking that is acceptable.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    What did Simon say... that's my point... i really don't give a sith about the rules... he will meet his cronies for a chat....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You might like your politicians with appendages but it's a fairly restrictive criteria to judge them by.

    What about the women?

    As for the subject of the thread I posted early on with my prediction and after tonight I reckon MM's stock has gone up.

    I'm not sure though how long the "Freedom Friday" bounce will last.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Watch it FF and Martin will get a big jump in the polls after today and in a few weeks will probably try to get out of the agreement by saying now we are out of the pandemic we need an election to show what we need to move forward. FG and other parties know this may happen do watch for little bits of jockeying for position



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,812 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Easiest one is that he won't be leader of FF for the next General Election. They're itching to get rid of him

    Are they really though? Now he has signalled his intention to reverse the position that was causing most dissent, a refusal to consider doing business with SF, I'm not convinced there is an overwhelming desire within the party to see the back of him. If he is determined to carry on into the next election, I'm not sure there is the will to force him out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I suspect that there is more going on on than we know as such a dramatic shift in strategy is unusual... Hopefully we have got it right and Covid has left for good... I think there was a mention of a new variant in the UK...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    After repeatedly hiding from everyone and after about 8 different parties were found to have happened. He was studiously quiet for the first 7 til it became impossible to ignore. And he is just brazening his way through it.

    The "exact same thing" most definitely did not happen - the situations are incomparable, but not for the reason you seem to think.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I wonder.

    I think I will be a bit like that Japanese soldier who wouldn't come out of the jungle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado



    So he is copying the way we do it... eventually he came out... i wish it would happen here... personally i think any issue involving elected reps needs to be explained directly to the people...I dont know why you think they are not comparable... both drink parties... maybe one was gin and one brandy... is this what you mean...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I believe they are yes. FF have two big problems:

    1. They are a medium sized party but many of their members and TDs believe that they should still be the electoral juggernaut that they were for most of the history of the state. For these people that party simply must just have the wrong leader and someone else can return them to the promised land. The truth is that their previous state was a defiance of the expected outcome of a PR-STV voting system and the modern multi-party system is more of an actual reflection of it. No leader is going to return them to the days where they were getting 70+ seats in every single election.
    2. The party has no real identity. They defined themselves by the simple fact that they were the ones most frequently in power and tweaked their ideology to maintain that power. Now that they are no longer that party of power what are they? Michael Martin hasn't cleated this up and many people in the party are eager for them to define themselves in one way or another. Again, there is a feeling that a new leader might do this so that they can focus on one section of the electorate before all of their current voters literally die off.

    Personally I'd be shocked if he was still there. He's only 61 but he got into politics at an extremely young age. He's been in the Dail now for 32 years and hasn't got anything left to prove. He pulled his party back from the brink in 2011, exceeded expectations in 2016 and became Taoiseach in 2020. If he tried to stay on the most likely outcome for him (or any other FF) leader is that they end up propping up a SF government next time round. No, this is his peak. He may as well go out on the top.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,812 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    If he tried to stay on the most likely outcome for him (or any other FF) leader is that they end up propping up a SF government next time round.

    That is something I hadn't considered. Martin may harbour hopes against hope of returning FF to pole position but surely the realist in him must know playing second string to SF is the 'best' they can hope for. I doubt he would want his 'legacy' to be leading FF down that road...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭Deregos.


    I've haven't voted for either FF or FG in over 30 years and my SF vote in the last election was really a protest vote about them not allowing MLM to take part in the televised debates back then.

    Now we're essentially heading into a potential long term war in Europe, I have more confidence with MM at the helm than I'd have with any of the other current party leaders.

    Or am I suffering from some sort of mild, delusional form of Stockholm syndrome?

    Pictures of your own bad parking WITH CHAT



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I thought that he came across very well on BBC today. Very measured and Statesmanlike.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    To use a sailing analogy, if you are caught in a storm at sea it's useful to have a steady hand at the tiller.

    An experienced skipper can make all the difference.

    You don't have to like the man at the helm you just want to get safely ashore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Martin will do whatever he's told to do by Brussels he's a branch manager and no more

    Varadker and MLMD will sing from the same hymn sheet, but the latter will scalp the tax payer without anything to show for it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Taoiseach tests positive for Covid. See the risks our elected leaders take to promote Ireland?

    Get well soon.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Not sure he should even be over there right now

    Shamrocks doesn't seem appropriate atm



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Absolute Zero


    Get better soon meehole, your country needs you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    That nonsense during the week about "Emergency Video Conferencing" gets on my nerves

    Some rubbish about the US visit arranged before the war started , like anyone even cares about their emergency conference in the overall context of the war



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,584 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    But it's St. Patrick's America Day don't you know. We can't dare upset the Americans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    It funny how every year we have the same few complaining about the trip to the US. This is a big deal not just for Ireland but for the US as well. As I pointed out on the other "moan a minute" thread, in Chicago the river is still changed Green. Which other country is this done for.

    If anything this is the most important time for the Taoiseach to fly to the US. To show that the US and Ireland still have a great relationship. Also to keep building those relationships and make sure that we are still a prime destinations for US holiday makers but also for US multinationals.

    It is great to see MM over in the US and it's a pity he doesn't get to meet face 2 face. But the fact he is over in the US, has risked his own health will be appreciated by the US public.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    For those complaining about the US relationship


    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=402606267324663



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Sh*t , maybe Leo should be getting on the plane to take his place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Can't have 2 of them coming down with covid

    We'd only have Tony left running the country



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I've taken part in city parades over there , it's just a day out for the yanks

    They're Irish for the day, it's just a buzzword



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Of course you did, you only happened to mention it after I told you to visit the US.

    😂😂😂😂😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,170 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,223 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You should have asked for your money back!

    How many bhats did she ask for?

    I suppose as long as you got your moneys worth



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I lived over there , was no biggie being on a float on Paddy's day

    Don't know why you make it seem so unbelievable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,170 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    I think the trips are vital to our continued development and sustaining our high employment levels however we sent over a man to lead us with a weak immune system and he failed us on the highest stage



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel




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