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Future of Micheal Martin

  • 13-01-2022 3:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭


    Will he take the job as an Taniste next December or retire ?



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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He doesn't have a future; the most spineless and gutless politician to ever lead this country.

    The moment Martin handed pretty much all power and responsibility to NPHET, his credibility - or what was left of it - tumbled off a cliff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭pidgeoneyes


    He managed to bankrupt the country twice in 10 years.

    Hopefully he'll retire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,437 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Yes. he'll take the Tainiste gig and retire from politics at the next general election.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    I think this thread could be broadened out to Fíanna Fáil more generally to be honest — as right now they come across as irrelevant, incompetent, spineless and utterly lacking in vision or political identity. Micheal Martin as a person I’m sure is a decent man, but he comes across as nothing more than someone who just really wanted to be Taoiseach because, well, that’s it — he just wanted to be Taoiseach. He offers nothing beyond that — no imagination, no ambition, no vision. The Covid crisis has exposed, almost cruelly, just how poor a leader he is. At a time when people, especially younger people whose enjoyment of youth has been placed on hold for two years, really need to see something, anything, that looks like vision — Micheal continues to come across like little more than a parish priest delivering his post-Gospel musings to a dwindling congregation that isn’t listening anymore.

    I’m no Fine Gael cheerleader, but while it’s hard to differentiate them from FF too greatly on an ideological basis, on a capability basis the distinction seems clear. They just look a better version of FF. If SF pull off a big election and get into power, I’d have some degree of faith that FG could take the humbling and come back better (perhaps even picking up some capable defectors from FF). If SF takes up a position on the left, with Fine Gael sitting kind of centre right — suddenly Ireland finds itself with something starting to resemble a classic left-right spectrum and the old Civl War duumvirate broken. Where would FF go from there?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,272 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    NPHET is tasked with the following: providing direction, guidance, support and expert advice on the development and implementation of a strategy to contain coronavirus in Ireland. It facilitates the sharing of information between the Department of Health and its agencies. It provides a forum for agreement on strategic approaches to public health emergencies. (from this link)

    Would you prefer if government decisions around a critical health risk to the population were based on populism or available scientific evidence?

    I dislike MM (and for that matter, I equally dislike LV) but to largely follow the advice from the expert panel shows that they have acted responsibly as Taoiseach. Maybe you can confirm otherwise but NPHET's don't make decisions on public policy - they simply advise the government. They don't have any power really except that people listen to what they have to say.

    If you want to be critical of MM then look at the many things he has done wrong including the political donations which I still believe were being treated in the same manner as those given to Pee Flynn (who AFAIK still hasn't given the money to the party).


    To answer the OP's question, I don't think he will stay on - at that stage FF will be getting prepared for the 2025 GE and 2024 LEs. FF would want someone with more long term ambitions in the top seat as I don't think anyone envisages him staying on as leader beyond then. I think the same could also be said for LV as leader of FG.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 80,669 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn


    I think he will have to stay in place as there's nobody to take his place as the moment that doesn't have baggage with them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,102 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    I think he is a very decent man on a personal level thats gone through a lot of hardship in his personal life. Ive no idea how a father who has lost two children through no fault of his own is able to still put on a smile and try do a job to the best of his ability. How he is able to put up with the sh1te and abuse on a daily bases is beyond me.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭Freight bandit


    I'd say he'll turn up in the EU...cleansed...he wants nothing to do with a backwards idea of sovereignty!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,810 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    NPHET are a necessary body, nobody would deny that.

    But unlike most other countries, Martin ceded all power and responsibility to NPHET - rather than to take, on balance, his own perspective on the matter.

    That tells me that he is spineless and lacks leadership skills.

    He'd rather hide behind NPHET and blame them for anything during the pandemic.

    A pandemic isn't just about healthcare, though that is vital. There are many other political factors to consider. Martin made it all about NPHET, and that makes him a weak leader.

    It doesn't mean we don't need NPHET, it means that we need a leader.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,782 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    He's nothing, he really wanted to be taoiseach to be taoiseach and didn't want the title of been the only FF leader not to be.

    He's deeply unpopular in his party but they lack so little talent there is no power struggle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,039 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Unless it pays better, he is as mean as pi55 when it comes to money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 575 ✭✭✭Deregos.


    Well MM might not be that great as an inspirational leader but I'd rather him than someone like that lying, egotistical toerag BJ.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I think he will see out his term as Taoiseach and carry on as Tanaiste.

    After that I'd say it's 50/50 whether he will lead FF into the next election.

    Too many variables to be sure what will happen.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Can't see him becoming Tánaiste once his term is up. Serve out his term on the backbenches like so many before him. I do think he would make a fine FF candidate for President.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    I thought ff should have gone with someone else as leader but saying that I think he's done a pretty decent job.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He does have an innate decency about him. His radio interview with Brendan O'Connor showed that. It's easy to throw stones at politicians, but dedicating your life to public service is a noble calling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    TBF he took FF from the gutter and put them back in government. Might not be what most of us wanted but some feat.

    I think he'll jack halfway through his tainiste stint. Once that pension is boxed off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,671 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    He seems like a good person a decent individual… I think when compared to a lot of them he’s a what you see is what you get person and that’s rare in politics, in fact growing rarer in life…when you compare him to Leo he’s just got a million times more credibility , gravitas and trustworthiness and likability about him…

    i think maybe where he could have done better was in some Dail exchanges where he came across as a little too emotive and riled every now and then….but I’d rather that then Dr Smugtastic of the opposition leering and grinning and being generally just dismissive and condescending…as opposed to intelligent and engaging responsibly and respectfully.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    MM is worse than Cowen, devoid of leadership mettle entirely

    Completely hollow man ,weak weak weak



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What particular qualities would you like to see in a leader?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    He could join the DUP but is possibly too extreme for them. He seems to hate Irish nationalism more than them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Citizen2011




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It was after the 2011 election that the FF party realised that their core support was gone.They've never really recovered, and the party structures are in bits. The FG "heartland" held onto that vote better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    You make a good point — I do think he is very much “what you see is what you get” and as you say, that is a rarity in politics. I guess you are also right that he does seem likeable, though perhaps it’s also true to say that being ”likeable“ in the political sphere can (sometimes) be seen in the same way as calling someone “harmless” in the social sphere — they’re grand but you don’t necessarily want to hang out with them. It seems similar in a way to how things fared for the UUP and SDLP in the North, on the whole more likeable people than their SF/DUP counterparts and yet still having lost swathes of ground to them.

    The problem Micheal has is that there isn’t really much ideological difference between him and Varadkar, so beyond ideology there would have to be something about him that sets him apart from Varadkar etc. More likeable perhaps and almost inarguably more genuine, but he also smacks of the past while offering no real vista of what he is trying to achieve. He’s not selling a hugely different product from Varadkar et al politically, but Varadkar is just a better salesman. Fine Gael just come across savvier, more commercially-minded, more modern, and with a clearer sense of purpose. Then there is Sinn Fein, who have charismatic people and seem to offer something different at least, and at most the prospect of taking a wrecking ball to an outdated Irish political establishment. Micheal and Fíanna Fáil just scream insipidness and if Sinn Féin’s rise continues then FF are going to find themselves as an irrelevant ‘meh’ party stuck between SF and FG.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,889 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    But if he fully intends to quit at the next GE is he really going to take over as tanaiste? If he has FF's interests at heart surely the thing to do is let someone else take over and serve in that role so they will have made an impression on the voters before the election? He's done nearly every big job in politics, can't see much thrill for him in a couple of years as Leo's deputy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,810 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    For decades FF had the votes of a large percentage of the population and GE time was all about getting a few undecided with them to get over the line to get the Mercs and perks.

    The country has changed dramatically in the last 30 years. The GAA moved with the times, but FF didn’t. (Chickens came home to roost in the RC cult).

    They sold out the country and destroyed the lives of a generation of young people who by and large have since ignored the party.

    There is no talent coming through. MM may have made sure he wasn’t the first FF leader not to get the big job, but he has failed to win back those young people and as a result he could be the last FF taoiseach for some time.

    Then again, how could he win back that generation given that he had helped destroy the country? Yet there’ll be people feeling sorry for him as he heads off in to the sunset with a platinum pension that they’ve subsidised.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,181 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    At least with FG in 2020 you thought that Leo had a spine, every time MM slunks up to the podium you'd feel a strong breeze would knock him over. Entire FF backbench seems like spineless yes men, completely out of their depth.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭dubdaymo


    NPHET is tasked with the following: providing direction, guidance, support and expert advice on the development and implementation of a strategy to contain coronavirus in Ireland. It facilitates the sharing of information between the Department of Health and its agencies. It provides a forum for ageementr on strategic approaches to public health emergencies.

    Yes, NPHET was designed for all that but they could never be called a truly "expert panel". In reality, they got so much obvious stuff wrong mainly due to arrogance and egomania but were never properly interrogated and questioned by the leader of the country. MM.

    NPHET modellers continually and deliberately put forward outrageous predictions yet I never heard them taken to task on this by the leader of the country. MM.

    Maybe you can confirm otherwise but NPHET's don't make decisions on public policy - they simply advise the government. They don't have any power really except that people listen to what they have to say.

    You are quite wrong to say that NPHET had no power. Their strategy was obvious - and clever. They made sure that their advice to Govt. was out in the public domain in advance on every possible occasion which left the Govt. with no alternative but to comply often with ludicrous, inconsistent and ill-thought out restrictions. The leader of the country should have but failed to put a stop to that. In effect, they were handed power by the leader of the country. MM

    To add to all this he appointed a completely clueless Minister for Health, Stephen "NPHET said" Donnelly

    MM comes over as a decent, honourable man and I wouldn't question his honesty for one second but, I'm sorry to say, that he failed as leader of the country in a critical time. I don't see how he has any future in Irish politics.



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