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Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

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Comments

  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No thanks chief. I've absolutely no interest in international men's day.

    But I can guess why. Past international men's days have been shitshows teaching men how they need to be better. It is a stark contrast to how international women's Day is traditionally celebrated. I can see why people might have a moan over it.

    This particular thread is about men and whether they need to have a license to socialise. When people point out that it's a horrific idea and wouldn't be tolerated against any other group, they get told they are moaning and not listening.



  • Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Before you start telling me I'm wrong, you don't get to tell me how I feel.

    Shane geoghan was a rugby player so well known.killed by criminals when Limerick criminals were big news so very newsworthy . It depends on how newsy a person is on if there is another big story and how people are sheep led by the media

    If the media led them some would have had vigil for the general

    -------------------------------

    edit i don't know what the line above the quote is about. i quoted from phone this site does not work



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,152 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Even the priest today on the altar telling men they need to change, based off some fooking depraved act by one single man.....

    Had me bellyful this illogical garbage being peddled the past week.

    Tackle scum as they present, and quit the bull that somehow we can rid the world of badness if only men got their sh1t together!!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Yeah, why didn’t men complain about something before it happened?

    What’s happened this week is unprecedented. Women have been murdered in Ireland before, but there has never been this circus around it. We’ve had almost a week of wall to wall coverage, vigils, tv debate, radio debate, political statements and the President and Tanaiste turning up at the funeral.

    Irish men should need a license to go out, Irish mammies are to blame for cooking dinner for their boys, Irish men need to step in if there’s ever an altercation, Irish men need to “step up”, Irish men need to “challenge” other men and sexist jokes.

    It wasn’t even a fcuking Irish man who killed her!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    The Sarah Everard case was very big news as is the Ashling Murphy case. I don’t think every case could possibly follow this level of coverage. I wonder what the family of the next victim will think when it it goes largely ignored by the media. The family of Michael Tormey are probably wondering it themselves.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Sure the west is pretty well de-populated according to a gaa article i read an hour ago... no people... no crime...



  • Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Unfortunately even if all the street whistling and comments stop, that will have zero impact on the actions of the really dangerous men who will physically attack

    i would say very little to fear from whistlers except perhaps embarrassment. That does not mean i condone whistling or shouting at women, i don't

    But the really dangerous people do not warn with whistles



  • Posts: 24,286 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We are, I agree, but we have a justice system in need of a radical overhaul and a drug problem that needs more control (i don't think prohibition is the answer). We are relatively safe and inclusive in comparison to many other countries but should address crime tougher, and get on top of the festering mental health issues. We also need to be smarter with immigration and screen it in a fairer and more efficient manner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,176 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Yeah, why make mens lives better, when you can use the fact that men suffer as an argument against women who try to make their lives better.

    Tell me again how this isn't a perennial victim complex?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,958 ✭✭✭✭billyhead


    He had to go with the narrative that all men are evil mysognistic bastards. The real issue here is we need to properly vet who we let into this country.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,176 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    It's patently obvious that it isn't just about Aishling so your desire to make this just about Irish men with respect to her is irrelevant.

    Talk to the women in your life as to how they felt when they heard the news and when they tell you, listen to them instead of ranting about how feel persecuted about TV and news shows talking about something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,147 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    I dont think we should take your word for it. Unless, you dont count a murderer as anything other than a "really dangerous" person. Or maybe the women are at fault, they didnt welcome the compliments?

    Targets of Street Harassment:

    1. A harasser fatally shot Tiarah Poyau at the J’ouvert festival in Brooklyn, NY, in 2016 after she asked him to stop grinding on her.
    2. 15-year-old girl in India committed suicide by setting herself on fire because she could no longer bear the sexual harassment by a 24-year-old man in her community.
    3. In 2016, 19-year-old Sohagi Jahan Tonu‘s body was found in bushes near her campus in Comilla, Bangladesh, raped, with her head bashed in.
    4. Argentinians María Coni (22) and Marina Menegazzo (23) were murdered while backpacking in Ecuador in 2016, with speculation that it was due to harassment that escalated or they were kidnapped to be trafficked and then killed.
    5. Thirty-year-old Japanese Asami Nagakiya was performing at 2016 Trinidad Carnival when her body was found in bushes, likely raped, and murdered. The mayor blamed her based on her clothing. Outrage over that statement forced him to resign.
    6. Janese Talton-Jackson was killed in 2016 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, after she declined a man’s invitations to go on a date.
    7. On New Year’s Eve 2015, consensual conversations between strangers in two cars in Denton, Texas, escalated into harassment and then to a man shooting into the other car, killing 20-year-old college student Sara Mutschlechner.
    8. In 2016, 15-year-old Prinki was shot by a man who had been harassing her “for some time” in India.
    9. In 2015, a mini-bus driver in Tarsus, Turkey, tried to rape 20-year old Ozgecan Aslan, when she resisted, he beat and killed her.
    10. Mary Spears was shot by a man in 2014 in Detroit, Michigan, after she refused to give him her phone number.
    11. In Brazil, between January and August 2014, 12 young women aged 13-29 were shot and killed by a motorcyclist as they stood in public spaces. The reason? They were young and female.
    12. In Vancouver in April 2009, a woman was murdered while running in a park.
    13. In March 2009, a 29-year-old pregnant woman was walking home from work in Manhattan with a co-worker when a van drove onto the sidewalk and hit them. Witnesses say the men in the van were “catcalling” the women, who were trying to ignore the men. The pregnant woman was killed and her co-worker was hospitalized.
    14. After a Bradenton, Florida, high school football game in the fall of 2009, a young man approached four young women who were in a car and propositioned them for sex. When they refused, he came back with a gun and fired at them. One young woman died from her wounds.
    15. In Orlando, Florida, in June 2008, there were two cars sitting at a red light with young men in one car and young women in the other. When asked, the young women refused to give the young men their phone numbers and so the men shot at them. One of the women died a few days later from her gun wounds.
    16. In Washington, DC, in September 2008, a young woman was eating dinner on her front porch. When she refused to comply with the demands of an unknown young man passing by, he went home and came back with a gun and shot her. She died from the gun wounds, too.

    Then, we have Ruth George, a young college student murdered because she ignored the whistling/compliments.

    CHICAGO — The young college student was walking to her car. The man catcalled her. She ignored him.

    What happened next could have been lifted from any woman’s most vivid nightmare: The man, Donald Thurman, followed the 19-year-old student, Ruth George, as she entered a parking garage, prosecutors said on Tuesday. He followed her from behind and put her in a chokehold, they said.

    “The defendant was angry that he was being ignored,” prosecutors said in a statement.

    Ms. George’s family became worried when she did not return home on Friday night, and on Saturday morning, the police tracked the pings of her cellphone to the parking garage, where her body was discovered, face down in the back seat of her car.

    So, street harassers, not dangerous at all. Only want to give you compliments or get your phone number.

    A great bunch of lads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,566 ✭✭✭zv2


    No it's about how men are such psychopathic ogres they have to be vetted before they can go on a night out. We don't have to ask women how they feel, we know. We know what its like to walk the streets in fear of your life. We're men you know.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lol.

    Victim complex?

    Sure thing. **** hypocrisy at its finest.

    In a thread where it's being discussed if a man needs a licence to socialise, you are claiming men have a victim complex.

    We have women here calling for compliments to be illegal because it might not be nice for them, yet it's the men, who are being roundly criticised because of the actions of one maniac, who are playing victim.

    And how do you know I don't do anything to make men's lives better? Because I have no interest in bullshit men's day? I do plenty.

    And women in this discussion are trying to make their lives better? How exactly? By telling men to be better. Oh ok.

    But ****, if men complain, we have a victim complex. If women complain, we must listen.

    Gotcha.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    You just aren’t listening. These men are coming from all corners of the world with great intentions, only to be corrupted into hating women when they hear Uncle Bob tell a blonde joke and Cousin Stephen telling a stranger she has beautiful eyes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,176 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The victim complex is how many on this platform time and again only talk about mens issues and how they need help when they are using it as an argument to stop any sort of advocacy for women. Thread after thread the focus is 'women should stop, because what about men' instead of starting threads focused on genuinely helping men.

    Of course everyone is going to say they do enough, same as the racism conversation where people say on here they are completely anti-racist and then take continued positions in discussions on the topic here which is against those who are calling for action on racism. But this is the internet, everyone can say they do X, Y and Z outside of here and who is anyone else to judge.

    But when someone does start a thread on the topic of helping men, or drawing attention to their needs, you refer to a day highlighting that as a bullshit day.

    Is it any wonder mens issues don't get the attention they need when so many react with such negativity to any sort of initiative. It's most definitely a complex.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,147 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    You should not need to be told that what one person sees as a compliment, another does not. You keep going back to compliments, because the correct term, street harassment does not suit your narrative.

    We've had people say here that some women go out looking for attention and dress accordingly. Rabbit hole nonsense.

    The people here bleating on about not being able to comment on women in public dont want to amend their behaviour.

    Yet everyone else, every single other person from the closet lesbians, to Michael D, to the Priest at the funeral to the women who are telling you to not harass them is at fault. Pure persecution type stuff.

    If women tell you not to harass them in the street, then dont harass them in the street. If your code of conduct is out of order, modify it. You are saying here that its disgraceful that it was suggested in the OP that men need social lessons. There are certainly some people here who need to understand and respect others boundaries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    As I mentioned earlier, again today I passed on a once nice walkway by the river, 3 Eastern Europeans drinking bottles of Polish lager in broad daylight, at around... 4pm? In high spirits, very laddish, looking at everyone that passed. A bit scuzzy looking too. Not being judgemental or anything but I doubt the woman with her pram who passed at the same time felt particularity 'safe' at that moment. I didn't either and wasn't about to challenge them as there was 3 of them and 1 of me. Since when did it become OK to have booze ups outdoors in this country? For all our Irish boozing culture I've never seen it till recently. Not around here anyway. Is it not actually against the law?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,345 ✭✭✭✭briany


    The Internet just isn't good for something like this...

    It's the same thing every time - people bickering, almost like they're actively looking to make themselves angry.

    And by the end, the product? Thread bans, probably.

    Horrible crime. Hope the Gards prosecute the right person to the fullest extent of the law and the innocent parties directly affected can somehow find the strength to carry on. Can't say much more than that...



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 21,647 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Any examples of this happening in Ireland? I don't think anyone will deny issues in place like India. Even the US is a basket case FFS.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭SamStonesArm


    Any little links there for the amount of men that commit suicide because they where not allowed see their kids because a spiteful woman wanted to score points ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,152 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Been kind thinking on this one. The outpouring of shock and revulsion and anger about this killing, by pretty much man, woman and child on this island.

    hmm. Does this not tell us that men and women are doing just fine? That men are not an issue, generally speaking?

    that maybe, just maybe, this random act of violence is just the sad and brutal part of human nature. And that no, some bigger/wider issue about men is not the avenue that needs exploring.



  • Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I didn't realise Brooklyn, Texas and Bangladesh were in Ireland



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,296 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Tell me again how this isn't a perennial victim complex?

    Let's face it, there is a lot of that going around these days and there isn't an identity whose talking heads and crawthumpers who aren't pushing that narrative for thier cause. However the plain and demonstrable fact is that men are way down the list of attention on that score as far as the media is concerned. The actual facts are; for every ten murdered, injured, assaulted or who take their own lives, eight of them are men. 80%. The only metric where women skew the stats the other way is in sexual assault and only a complete moron would claim men are the majority of sufferers there and should be fearful. Yet with the other metrics... In short if any group wants to play the gender victimhood game men have the much better hand coming to the card table.

    If this is ever brought up in the media and indeed politics you can bet your life it'll be explained away as being an effect of 'toxic masculinity' or the 'patriarchy' that's to blame and if only men were more 'feminist' things would be so much better for them(it's like a perversion of the religous stuff; if only they were more Christian/Jewish/Muslim/etc). The same modern 'feminism', much of whose overall politic can be comfortably summed up as women are always agentless victims and men are always to blame. Even when men are victims, it's still somehow their fault. Oh and they have to fix it among themselves. Women being agentless are handily off the hook. That's the narrative playing out about gender in Ireland today. We've swapped the idiocy of old style sexism for new style sexism and the same type of idiots are supporting it.

    Actually idiots is too strong to be fair. There are the talking heads getting attention and payment on the back of the current Accepted Truth and since the majority of any society accepts the Truth of the day, most will support it tacitly or actively. Leaving dissent to mostly cranks. That's never good.

    Look at how an entire gender has been villified in the media and politics this week. For the craic the next time you hear a commentator on RTE or wherever repeat the same tired crap regarding the male population, imagine for a second they were talking about women. The majority of people would have an apoplexy. Rightfully.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 21,647 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Also, does any woman genuinely fear they will be murdered of they say no to a date?

    Does anyone think the man will pop home and get his gun?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,147 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Not interested in whataboutery.

    This discussion is about women's safety and social behaviour.

    If you are interested in the topic you referenced, you are more than welcome to start a campaign or raise awareness on it to drive change.



  • Posts: 24,286 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I can genuinely understand how women are frightened by what happened. A perfectly justified response. However, I'm mystified as to how it falls on men as a collective to prevent this atrocity from happening again. The fact is that there are truly evil men out there and nothing can be done about them when the justice system wont set a precedent.

    Take, for example, we have a lunatic in our local area who mowed down a man and his toddler son back in the mid-1970s (which wasn't his first crime but wasn't the last life he took). He was eventually charged guilty of manslaughter and got a paltry 3 or 4 years in prison. he killed again in the UK and caused the brutal death of two of his partners in later years. A a guess I would think he probably didn't serve 15 years in total in both Ireland and the UK for all of his brutal crimes combined. A sick individual. It is hard to know how he evolved into this monster or who corrupted him in his life, but I'm pretty sure that he was well beyond having a word with him and advising him to check his behaviour in order to prevent these acts. He is a psychopath, like this lunatic up in Offaly. There is no remedy for his actions except to put him away for life, but the justice system in both Ireland and the UK, failed to do this.



  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I keep going back to the word "compliment" because I am talking about compliments. You keep going back to "street harassment" because the correct term, compliments, doesn't suit your narrative.

    News flash... Some women do go out looking for male attention. **** shocker.

    And I'm blaming arseholes piggybacking on a tragic murder to further their **** agendas.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Niamh on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭SamStonesArm


    This discussion is about men needing a license to go out.


    I'll talk about men in a topic about men , thanks for the options though , greatly appreciated .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,176 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    That didn't really address the question, in fact all it did was repeat the same narrative as the rest of the thread.

    Why are men and their concerns and issues only a conversation piece so it can be used to negate an argument relating to women and their advocacy? There's no shortage of topics that relate to men that need and deserve attention, but they are never almost never focused on outside of what I've mentioned.



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