Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

amacca

Just happened to catch a bit of Brendan O'Connors show this morning.....

They were discussing the murder of Aisling Murphy,

The floor was passed over to Sam McConkey to give an opinion, he mentioned you need to do at least 12 lessons to get a driving license and maybe before men are allowed out to socialise they should have to do a mandatory course and presumably pass it.....I mean ffs doesn't anyone see any issue with this kind of horseshit....not only does this nonsense not work it could actually make things worse imo...

Why isn't anyone focussing on the law and order aspect of this or demanding the powers that be work towards reducing public order problems/threatening intimidating behaviour etc....

I myself as a man have been on the receiving end of two unprovoked attacks, you read about people with previous public order convictions in the hundreds still seemingly free to roam around, isn't that part of the problem that nobody seems to want to mention....wouldn't that reduce the likelihood of tragedies like this happening?....why is it OK that the police are afraid to go into some areas etc....why is it OK to suggest "all" men should have to undergo a mandatory course to socialise.....I say "all" as no doubt if challenged on the nonsense one would get the placatory oh most men are lovely stock answer we just mean the bad ones ... at that point one would be nitpicking if you asked what the selection criteria for this course would be....

When will we do what we should do in this country and start applying timely and proper deterrants to criminality/thug behaviour so people can feel safer walking the streets rather than beating around the Bush with some nebulous notion of education programs and societal change.....I'm not saying culture can't change or that it shouldn't but I do think you'll always have scum and much higher levels of it regardless of what courses you bring in if the justice system doesn't face up to its responsibilities and actually campaigning for that to happen might go more towards a meaningful response to this horrific tragedy.

Mod - The Aisling Murphy case is now before the courts (19.01.22). Do not discuss the specifics of the case and nothing about the accused.

This thread can stay open as it is not specifically about the Aisling Murphy case but if this warning is ignored it will be closed.

EmmetSpiceland

God, it’s staggering the amount of men, angry men, who feel personally threatened after the murder of woman.

laoisgem

I agree entirely with what you are saying however a number of threads associated with Ashling Murphy have already been deleted and I presume this one will go the same way.

TooTired123

We can’t talk about the law and order element because the people who are leading the charge to demand that all men should be electronically tagged/under enforced curfew are the very same people who think that Gardai should really be replaced with social workers. They are also the very same people who want unvetted immigrants housed in large groups in every medium sized market town in Ireland.

Soooo….obviously the problem is men and what on earth can be done with them. Isn’t it?

Padre_Pio

It'll all be forgotten about in a few weeks.

Remember the Caroline Flack suicide and all the talking heads said that women and media should be more supportive and less critical?

Yeah, that ended well.

Remember the trial by public opinion of Paddy Jackson and all the "I believe her" nonsense shared on social media, then it turned out she was lying?

Yeah, that ended well.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483772#Comment_118483772

Fair enough, if it happens it happens I suppose. To the initial response. I feel threatened when people on the state broadcaster suggest I need a license to socialise simply because of my gender.

What if a contributor picked another group, say an ethnicity or a religious grouping and said they needed to do a course to be allowed socialise?

How would that go down? Would anyone call a halt and maybe say hang on a minute here, they aren't all one homogenous group, would there be no shitstorm?

Beechwoodspark

Heard McConkey and just shook my head - such a ridiculous and stupid statement out of him

laoisgem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483794#Comment_118483794

I hadn't heard that particular article and tbh I've been trying to stay away from social media as much as possible the last few days and making a point of not posting on the specific Ashling Murphy threads because emotions on both sides are too heightened. That is one of the most ridiculous suggestions I've heard but I, like many others, don't know what the solution is or even when to start. Atrocities like this often bring up the most crazed responses on both sides.

the_pen_turner

sadly they cannot let this poor woman rest without making her death a political issue and twisting it into a sick narrative. let her rest in peace and deal with her murderer apropriatly

Mister Vain

It is getting a bit ridiculous in fairness. They were talking about banning pornography as well on newstalk. As if that's going to make any difference.

I don't know why the thread in Current Affairs was closed either. It was a good discussion.

Economics101

I don't have the exact numbers to hand but I gather that (a) far more murders are committed by men than by women and (b) that over 60% of the victims of male murderers are other males, and (c) the vast majority of men never ever commit violence against women (or other men for that matter). Also AFAIK, very few men condone violence against women.

I am getting a little tired of talk of misogyny and generalised man-blaming. Even when we are well-behaved we are somehow guilty of not "calling out" bad behaviour by other men. Maybe that is sometimes because we fear that we ourselves will be assaulted by the perpetrator.

Consider also the following. Moslems are 99.99.....% peaceful, and very well-disposed to all their fellow humans. Yet among the very small numbers of people involved in terrorist incidents a significant (and disproportionate) number are Moslems. The vast majority of Moslems are quite rightly angered at being tarred with the terrorist brush (a bit like the vast majority of Irish people during the IRA violence). Maybe a lot of men are a bit annoyed at some of the media comments which appear to regard men in general as problematic. It's not as simple as that.

Having said all that nothing I have said should be taken as diminishing in any way the terrible evil and tragedy in Tullamore last week. Anger at what happened is of course understandable, but it is not a good basis for policy.

The type of men/people that are likely to carry out these attacks aren't going to change because of a civility course FFS.

Waiting until the 'male curfew' suggestion.

Donald Trump

If society wants behaviours to change, then it shouldn't reward behaviour it finds unacceptable.

laoisgem

Can I just add that some people like to be offended, even going so far as to find something to be offended about. (I'm not talking about the Ashling Murphy case here, just people in general)

Just this week I was called a cute hoor on a thread and I thanked the comment, I was actually going to post in that thread that it was actually refreshing to hear such a comment as I couldn't remember the last time I heard it and I took it as a term of endearment (as is usually said as) but didn't want to derail the thread. However I'm sure there are some people who would pick that comment apart in order to be offended. Heck I'd probably be lambasted for calling myself a feminist and not being offended by it!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483879#Comment_118483879

Thanks for derailing this thread instead especially as most of us probably won't be familiar with the referenced thread. 😄

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483780#Comment_118483780

Who’s demanding that all men are tagged or be placed under a curfew?

Its nonsensical posts like this that gets genuine debate shut down.

StevenToast

No one respects Sam McConkeys opinion.....on anything

Gregor Samsa

Lads, relax. It’s not going to happen. There’s not going to be licences for male socialising, male curfews or anything else. You don’t have to take every brain fart or click-bait comment seriously, even if it’s broadcast on RTE.

Talk to the actual women in your actual life. Are any of them calling for any of these measures?

I went to a vigil for Ashling last night, because I had a family member killed a few years ago in a very high-profile situation (not through violence) and the massive outpouring of public grief that resulted helped the family. I chatted very normally to a few women I know there, in the dark. Normal conversations. Walked among hundreds of others. I wasn’t hand-bagged, maced, rape-whistled or castrated by a mob of feminazis. All it was, was a very friendly family atmosphere, candles, some traditional musicians and a minute’s silence.

Yiz need to learn the difference between a provocative tweet and a Constitutional Amendment. Its not good for the blood-pressure thinking you’re a victim all the time.

laoisgem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483895#Comment_118483895

😁

To the OP, don't engage with all that shite and background noise, no need to get offended until they decide to introduce such a measure which will be never. If you know your a good person and keep your own side of the street clean, so to speak, ignore everything else!

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483901#Comment_118483901

Sam McConkey on RTÉ radio this morning calling for all young men to only be allowed to socialise once they’ve had 12 lessons in how to behave in public similar to the 12 driving lessons. You obviously don’t have a Twitter account. Electronic tagging for all men is still popular but the curfew idea suffered a bit of a death when it was pointed out that it would be difficult to have a 999 service if men weren’t allowed out after dark.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483770#Comment_118483770

And have you given some thought about why that might be? We're always told "listen to us" regarding women but what about listening to men instead of just disregarding anything we say.

Here we have someone on national radio raising the suggestion that men need a licence to socialise.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483780#Comment_118483780

And despite this obviously extrordinary level of contradiction and incoherency , we are supposed to nod respectfully at the wisdom of these enlightened folk

its a bad joke

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483770#Comment_118483770

I’m a woman but I’d feel threatened too if a respected professor came on national radio and suggested that I needed to prove that I’d completed a 12 lesson course in how to behave before I’m allowed out to the pub. Wouldn’t you??

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483907#Comment_118483907

Never heard of him tbh but someone must value his opinion if he got airtime on the radio.

There are too many of these professional trolls knocking about these days. It is easy to spot the right wing trolls and we rightfully silence and ignore them. The left wing trolls seem to be given free reign for some reason.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483793#Comment_118483793

not for Paddy Jackson , hes been effectively exiled to make a living outside the island

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483914#Comment_118483914

I personally didn't for one second believe it was going to happen tbh.....

And yes it's a brain fart but ffs it's moronic, it's not helping in any way and it's sort of missing the elephant in the room imo

I also personally believe its good to challenge something you believe to be bullshit before it's allowed take root....and wouldn't it be better to actually do something meaningful than even entertain stuff like this even tacitly by not responding or debating it's validity.

Gregor Samsa

As for the “driving licence” comment related in the OP. Every time someone talks about social issues with children on Boards, someone pipes up with “sure, you need a licence to own a dog, or a TV, but anyone can have a child!”

Does anyone seriously take that as a call to actually licence procreation? Does anyone get up-in-arms about it, opening threads saying that their God-given rights to have children are about to be taken away?

Cop on.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483812#Comment_118483812

The irony that scientists and all the woke crowd have spent the last 20 months saying "listen to the experts!" and this chap comes on national radio thinking he's some kind of social commentator. Stick to the 2/4/6 ply mask topic Sam!

completedit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483914#Comment_118483914

Really good post. My bias is towards that the reaction is completely over the top and has been hijacked by people and groups different agendas and hatred but it's lovely to hear it brought people together in actual person. We weren't made for this digital sphere, time and time again this is being shown up. The funny thing we can decide our destiny but forces are decreeing that this be how we live our our lives and engage in public discourse even though we know its bad for us.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483812#Comment_118483812

its not stupid for him at all , comments like that put him in good standing with a whole host of influential groups in ireland and all of the media

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483940#Comment_118483940

A luke o'neill type......

Cashing in on covid to promote himself for going on 2 years......

If i hear or see any of these spoofers anywhere, i immediately switch off....

"The funny thing we can decide our destiny but forces are decreeing that this be how we live our our lives and engage in public discourse even though we know its bad for us."

Not sure what point you're trying to make, but you sure you should be making it on a public forum? 🤔

Would you prefer if all decisions were made by a small few in back rooms?

tinytobe

I actually find it insulting as a man to suggest that men should need a license to be allowed to socialise.

But it's a free country, anybody can share their opinions and voices.

Mr.Crinklewood

Wait until the debate about a colour or black and white licence starts!

firemansam4

Ridiculous suggestion really from someone who is now starting to loose some of the limelight from all his zero covid nonsense.

Having said that, I do acknowledge their is problems in our society regarding abuse and violence towards women that need to be addressed, and maybe some sort of culture change is needed. Unfortunately I think a few people are using this tragic event to push some of their agendas, and they are coming out with some quite stupid comments.

BrianD3

This is so bad that previously I'd have assumed the OP was trolling/lying but barely anything is surprising anymore.

Race and gender are protected grounds in equality legislation

He should be nailed over this - somebody save the podcast before it "disappears". He'd be in serious trouble if he made that comment about Travellers or Muslims (also protected grounds)

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483793#Comment_118483793

Have you any evidence that she was lying or are you just adding legs to that fact that there was not enough evidence to prove that they were guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

AyeGer

I listened to the show, Allison o Connor asked Brendan for his opinion. Brendan gave an answer I wasn’t expecting from him. He basically said he and his friends treat women with respect already so wasn’t sure how to respond. I don’t think Allison liked his response. But Brendan’s response is the case for the majority of men in Ireland I’m sure, the issue is with the minority and work needs to be done there for sure. But how exactly is the question.

Sams idea is unlikely to gain much traction. It’s an insult to decent men out there. Although I’d forgive him as he is just trying to offer suggestions to a very difficult problem when the spotlight is being turned on men for answers.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483914#Comment_118483914

Stop all this common sense talk. This is no place for that kind of filth

Atlantic Dawn

It's at times like this that male only golf clubs were a great idea to get away from it all.

completedit

The problem is that what is and isn't acceptable is too individual specific. Anything from the mood of the receptive person is in, the context, who the person is that is exhibiting the behaviour.

Think about it you're walking down a beach along the Amalfi coast and some genuinely good looking Italian guys say something like "ciao Bella" to a girl walking past, this is going to get a very different reaction(possibly) to some grubby construction worker outside Centra at half 8 on a drab morning in Ireland leering at same girl (or it might not but) there's no hard and fast rule what constitutes creepiness or male privilege or whatever other grievances the tragedy has caused people to air with 50 per cent of the male species.

I'm a little bit bitter due to childhood and trauma and bullying at the hands of girls so have always had a generally skeptical distorted view of women based off these experiences . I know it is stupid but in my childhood I was signalled out by these girls exclusively and it just stuck with me. The truth is there is horrible people on both ends of the gender divide but most people are good. I can see why people use events like this to justify their worldview but we need to contain our biases.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483840#Comment_118483840

Who is going to call out the man haters?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483937#Comment_118483937

Any sane person would be horrified at that level of state over reach

growleaves

When it became known that a woman had been murdered but not by who or in what circumstances, there were immediate calls for "new legislation".

On the surface of things it makes no sense.

People were being murdered in the 13th century so why is this "new legislation" only arriving in 2022?

What's proposed is an increase in bureaucratic control over movement, behaviour and more digital surveillance.

Funny how a pandemic, climate variance and lethal violence all lead to the same solution - the deletion of personal freedom.

Also why is Sam McConkey now everywhere, for instance he was involved in a Presbyterian church controversy and now he comments on criminal justice issues. I thought virologists were medical micro-specialists.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118484116#Comment_118484116

Is he not supposed to be a respected academic though?

I mean really, is this the best he could come up with? It's moronic....as is the idea that anything like that would deter/prevent/reduce the likelihood of such tragedies happening in future

I'm just bemused as to how that's the kind of drivel being talked about/entertained rather than a serious debate about public order offences and actually deterring the yob/thug behavior that one would think is linked...you know actually punish people that carry out unprovoked assaults etc etc

I just don't see the kind of people that do that changing one iota because of an education program etc.....the kind of cultural change I think is necessary is culture clearly demonstrates that those kind of offences will be met with timely consequences you really won't like.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118484116#Comment_118484116

Unless these guys can be identified at a young age and 'worked on' by professionals then we are looking at prison sentencing. An assault that doesn't result in death is not considered as very serious by the judiciary here and will rarely see a sentence of 2 figures (Kevin Lunney case being a notable exception). Therefore violent people with many convictions are allowed walk amongst us and do as they please. Not to even mention the decrepit state of our mental health services

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118484147#Comment_118484147

Girls are unbelievably cruel to this day both to other girls and to men. The #bekind mob on Twitter are borderline psychotic to anyone who isn’t 100% on board with them, and will eat their own at the drop of a hat if there’s any dissenting.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483770#Comment_118483770

I'm noticing exactly the same around these boards this last few days.

While the comments in question are way off base and hardly representative, why exactly are men feeling threathend when women articulate their concerns ?

Why the backlash from some men ?

What the hell is triggering you ?

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118484170#Comment_118484170

Well listening to national radio these 2 mornings it’s not hard to conclude that for some, a tragic brutal death has provided the perfect opportunity at long last for a purge on men.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483940#Comment_118483940

His profession, and those with similar ideas, more or less suggested the best course for how you live your life, and what's safe for you to do, for almost 2 years now. That's for another discussion.

It's not just trolls saying this stuff, lots of intelligent women are being influenced by the argument that all men are responsible for all women feeling unsafe.

Ironically, the most chauvinistic, crude and immature men are by far the most successful with the opposite sex.

That's something I've observed over the past few decades socialising, and I've thought it very ironic during recent messaging about men needing to call out other men.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118484116#Comment_118484116

Her question was monumentally stupid

Asking him " as a member of the male species " to know the minds of all men as if we were the borg