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Spiral out - keep going

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Any news from that scan T?



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Hey S, meant to update the log on that very item.

    Had the scan on Wednesday. It was a FCE scan - https://fcescan.ie/ .It was a case of stripping down into the shorts, get some UV stickers on various parts of body and then get the back of my body scanned both standing still and in motion on a treadmill. Scans were available there and then so they were able to diagnose everything that needed work. On a whole, there is nothing seriously wrong with the back but it did find the source of my many recent issues.

    From the standing still scan, it was noticeable that pelvis was slightly higher on the right hand side and was tilting slightly forward. Tilting forward not a major problem but the lateral shift to the right was an area of concern. After the motion scan, where I just walked normally on the treadmill, more conclusive evident was found - was great to be able to see the motion yourself. It could be seen that my pelvis rotates exclusively to the left, with no moment whatsoever on the right. My spine is also shifted a bit to the left and doesn't move about as much as it should. For the consultation afterwards, we spoke about how the lack of movement on the right hand side would have caused most of my recent issues with achilles & back obviously. Interestingly, it also may have caused the Mortons neuroma/syndrome on my left foot. If that is the case, then this has been going on well before I started running. May be getting progressively worse.

    Now the rehab. Plenty of daily exercises that will focus on regaining motion into the pelvis/hip area, as well as strengthening over areas. Should just take up Salsa dancing i reckon. Definitely noticed when doing the exercises how one side is a lot easier than the other. Hopefully the right hand side will catch up quickly. I will go back in 2-3 months time for a rescan to see how things have hopefully improved.

    All in all, it was a worthwhile expense to get this done (155 euro, but half covered under health insurance). Takes all the guesswork that a physio/osteopath would do - as Shakira says, the hips don't lie. Should there be no improvements with the exercises, I can bring these scans results to an osteopath and they find them useful for a proper diagnosis and treatment.

    Feel free to ask any questions on this - will be as transparent as I can.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Thanks T. I'll keep an eye on how you get on with the exercises. The old cynic in me is cautious. I can't find any other references to FCE scan online except from their own site. I suppose I'm also afraid that it's a bit like Elverys gait analysis in that it produces an inevitable result but may not be the root issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Better update the running side of the past two weeks. All in all, things are going great - slowly getting back into my peak pandemic powers of early last summer. Sessions have gradually increased and are now back to normal. Easy runs are all getting up to 65' instead of 7 miles.

    Tues 4th - 65' easy, Thurs 6th - 7m easy, Fri 7th - 65' easy with 5x20" strides, Sat 8th - 7m easy

    Wed 5th - 15' tempo (5min rec), 5'+4'+3'+2'+1' (2min rec), 20' wu/cd

    Met up with one of the Hobbyjoggers after the FCE scan (see above), been ages since I ran with anyone. Paces were meant to be 10 mile pace for the 15 minute and then 10k to 3k I think for the rest. I was really going with feel to be honest as I've no idea of what these paces are anymore. The other guy kept pulling away from me for all the reps, which I didn't mind, as it made me work harder trying to keep him somewhat within reach. 15 minutes came in around 6min/mile pace, which I was happy with. The rest came in 5.58 + 5.51 + 6.00 + 5.47 + 5.08. Some GPS weirdness with those splits, effort felt about right - was definitely faster than expected

    Sun 9th - 40' tempo, 30' wu/cd

    With all the various marathon training finished for others, and the festive period well and truly over, the Sunday long run with the HJs was back. Big group this morning, 7 in total, and all of us going the same pace (10" slower than HM). We agreed on 6.20min/mile for the 40'. No way is 6.10 my HMP but I wanted to put some more effort into it, especially with Dungarvan 10 coming up quickly. Plus it was only 40' 😊

    After the rapid 30' warmup, avg 7.30, we settled into the pace nicely. I did think this would be a struggle and kept to the back of the group - thinking I would fall off the pace eventually. Had the usual mid running struggle when we turned back at halfway - 6.17, 6.15, 6.15. The pace of the group notched up another level with the next mile 6.03. Still I was there and surprisingly felt quite good. Next mile at 6.09 and the group started to break up, but I was able to keep near the front. Last mile was another good one, 6.05, with the remaining bit around the same pace. It really came as a surprise to me that I was able to do that, gave me such a confidence boost. 30' cool down was rapid again, definitely not used to these fast paces for wu/cd. Overall 14.5 miles in 6.53avg

    Tues 11th - 65' easy, Thurs 13th - 7m easy, Fri 14th - 65' easy with 5x20" strides, Sat 15th - 65' easy

    Wed 12th - 15x2' on/off, 5x1' on/off, 20'wu/cd

    Solo for this one. From previously doing 20x2' on/off session, I knew this was a big increase to my previous weeks sessions and would have to be focused for it. 2' pace was meant to be 5 mile pace, which I ranged from 5.50-6min. 1' at 5k, which would be done by feel. Wanted to start conservatively and grow into the session. First 5 rattled off at 5.54, 6.00, 5.58, 5.52, 6.00 - felt them but all was good. Next 5 were 5.49, 6.00, 5.49, 6.01, 5.51 - was still feeling quite good, considering. Last 5 were 5.46, 5.50, 5.56, 5.53, 5.49 - could definitely tell I was going well. Quickly into the 1' and tried to be controlled for them - 5.30, 5.27, 5.49, 5.39, 5.31. Nailed the session without going bananas on it.

    Sun 16th - 50' tempo, 30' wu/cd

    Same as previous week but with 10 minutes extra and less people to run with. From 7 in the group last week we were down to 3. Again we agreed on the 6.20 but I knew the other guys would speed up for the 2nd bit as they were more than capable of doing so. An extra 10', plus the big session during the week in the legs, it would be tougher for me. First couple of miles were bang on track and before we knew it we had reach the halfway point - 6.24, 6.12, 6.12, 6.18. Turning around and we did face a bit of a headwind which made us increase the effort levels. My legs were definitely feeling it here. Tried to focus on just keeping up with the other 2 and not worry about the pace. Next 2 were 6.17 and 6.14, with only 2 to go. Again, the aim was to just keep pace with the other 2 and not look at the pace. Was struggling but didn't realise the pace had picked up. Barely kept up with them until the end - last 2 miles were 6.09, 6.02. Was delighted again. Same rapid warmup and cooldown resulted in a 1.28 HM time. Nearly 16m in 6.51

    Quite a good couple of week's work done. Feeling quite strong and happy with the progress being made. The exercises prescribed from the scan are doing the job I think but the increase in training load is the biggest factor here. I'm hoping to keep things consistent for the next 2 weeks and give Dungarvan a good crack. It's too early to think about going sub 60 but will aim for 62-63min hopefully. All going well, Mallow 10 could be the race for the sub 60



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Big sessions there man - great to see and it looks like you're handling it pretty well.

    "No way is 6.10 my HMP"

    Probably nitpicking but if your threshold is around 6min/mile per the session on the 5th then 6.10 for the HM would be pretty accurate.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    If you dont go go sub 60 in Dungarvan, you will be very close to it from your current training paces. If the body holds up and conditions are good, sub 62 will be very straightforward for you, I would have thought. Would you still plan to go off at 6 min miles or a bit more conservative at start and try and negative split it? Not familiar with the route but i'd imagine its reasonably flat from running around those parts?



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    As I said in the supershoe thread, when you train in supershoes like NEXT% you need to realise that there is no big jump in pace when it comes to races - your training pace is similar to your race pace. The taper is normally negated by the conditions and route. I have a 60' tempo this weekend, so if I run that between 6.15-6.20 it's a big ask to increase that to sub 6 min miles just yet. So I would be targeting 6.10avg for Dungarvan and if I can push on for the last couple of miles, it would be a bonus

    Now if I was training in normal shoes and running these training paces, then I would be all set for sub 60.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    Ah yeh, fair point with the shoes. 6.10 makes sense then as you would still expect a natural uptick in a race,shoes aside. Good luck 👍



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Guess you're right but I'm not there at this moment. Still increasing my speed on the longer distance and will get there eventually. Once I can get the 10 mile done at that pace, I will then believe it is my HM pace 😃



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Another good week and a half put in and look to be in good shape coming up to Dungarvan

    Tues 18th - 7m easy around the farm

    Thurs 20th - 7m easy around the farm

    Fri 21st - 7m easy

    Sun 23rd - 5m easy

    Wed 19th - 10'@10m pace, 2x7', 5x3' (rec 3' for all). 20' WU/CD

    The idea with this session would be to start with my 10m pace and increase it as the reps get shorter and shorter. Was a stiff enough breeze that morning so knew it would affect the paces - tried to concentrate on effort levels. 10' tempo and aimed for 6.10 average - hit it fairly comfortably (6.07) but had the wind at my back. Plus I didn't want to gas myself with short 3 minutes recovery on all reps. The 7' reps ended up against the wind, I did aim for 5.55 - 6 originally but allowed it to drift slightly (6.02,6.02). Found them really tough but with the wind and short recoveries it felt like the back was broken on the session. Surprisingly the legs felt good to go for the 3' and was able to give them a good lash. 3 of the reps were with the wind, 2 against - easy to see which were which (5.36, 5.45, 5.45, 5.52, 5.52). Good feeling afterwards, legs seemed a lot stronger than before.

    Sat 22nd - 10m@6.20, 2m wu 5m cd

    Switched this run to a Saturday as the OH was running a race on Sunday morning (which she finished 1st F40). I was apprehensive fro two reasons - first was having to run this solo and secondly it was a day closer from the Wednesday session. My brother and sister were also doing a 27 mile training run (!!) in preparation for Donadea 50k so I said I would join them for the cool down. That meant me having to pick a suitable route that finished up close to where they would be at that time - which meant I needed to go over the lumps of Blackrock castle twice.

    After a lovely short 2m warmup (sorry SB 🤣), changed into the NEXT% and off I went. One thing I noticed was how quiet the walkways and paths were on a Saturday, compared to Sunday. Weather conditions were ideal as well, cold with no wind. First two miles saw me try to settle into that pace, would not be concerned if it ended up slower than 6.20 (6.21, 6.23). Next mile saw me go over the lumps of Blackrock castle in 6.39. I have the session on my watch set to average pace (which I really highly recommend to everyone) so never saw this slow mile popup. Having it set to average pace allows me to not worry about every mile coming in on pace, which in turn take effort levels, terrain and weather into the equation. If I saw this mile beep on its own, I bet I would beat myself up and increase the effort levels unnecessarily. Anyway, next 2 miles were back on track (6.11, 6.20) and reaching halfway, I was feeling it but was not in bad shape.

    Was now heading back along the same route, trying to keep the same effort levels going, whilst keeping something in reserve for the returning leg of Blackrock castle. Next 2 miles were bang on track (6.25, 6.12). Going up Blackrock castle I was able to give it a bit extra and was surprised that the lactate in the legs wasn't as bad as I expected, or previously experienced (6.21). Was able to push on for the last two miles because of that, not chasing averages but more increasing the effort levels to mimic what it will be like in Dungarvan (6.09, 6.06). Averaged 6.19 for the ten miles, a 63.10 ten miler all in all. Delighted. Met up with the brother and sister for a welcomed 9.30 plus paced cool down - tried my best not to increase their pace! Fair play to them getting that 27 miler done, it would be my idea of hell on earth.

    Tues 25th - 7m easy around the farm

    Wed 26th - 8x1m@10mile pace (1' rec), 20'wu/cd

    Talk about the session to determine what my 10 mile race pace should be for Dungarvan next week. It looks like a beast of a session on paper, with the added bonus of short 1' recoveries. With my new found wisdom, or is it me overprotecting myself from injury, I wanted to hit goal 6.10 pace for the first 4 and see how I'm fixed for the rest of it. First rep and started off way too quick as usual, it naturally slowed itself over the course of the mile (6.05). 1 minute recovery over in a blink of an eye and off for the second. This one felt tougher but I didn't need to push the pace at all, could keep it under the 6.10 quite easily (6.08). Going well but things can go downhill quite quickly with 60 second recoveries, so kept focussed. Next one again felt tough but manageable (6.07). Turned back on the route for the 4th, it was getting more difficult but was in no danger of going slower (6.08).

    Halfway reached and was in good shape, both in breathing and more importantly in the legs. Next mile went a bit quicker (6.04), subconsciously started to up effort. Started to think about these short recoveries sessions more and how they suited me - the fact I was analysing how they suited me with 3 miles left shows how good a condition I was in! Next one comes in at 6.00, was running a lot smoother for this mile. Second last one came in at 6.02 and the legs were filling up with lactate halfway through it, normal feeling really. Last mile and finished it out with a 5.54, with the legs really heavy at the end. Felt I had another 1 or 2 in me though, which is a good sign.

    In the analysis of why these short recovery sessions suits me - at this moment, my legs are playing catchup on my cardio/breathing etc. So at 6-6.10 pace, my breathing is never troubled for the majority of the reps. A lot of runners would be gasping for breath and wouldn't fully catch up during the short breaks, whereas I'm never in that sort of trouble. It's my legs that are the first to go, they start to fill up with lactate and I get this jelly feeling in them first which then moves to a heavy lead feeling. Probably the reason I like the shorter distances over the longer ones.

    All heavy sessions are now completed before Dungarvan and expectations have been exceeded. There is a chance that I could scrape in sub 60 if I went for it but it's a big risk in my mind, and one not worth taking. Will go out at 6.10 pace for the first 5 miles and see how I'm fixed then. If I'm able to speed up for the rest, that will be a bonus. Mallow 10 will then be the sub 60 target



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Great work on the solo 10m at 6.20 - they are a savage workout (I dont miss them :) )



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Are you sure? Some of the sessions you have been doing recently seem to be a lot more difficult than the ones that were assigned to you 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Some big big sessions there. Are you sure you're not being a little conservative with the Dungarvan target? I know you think its a big risk but really why is it? Mallow is the target race - seems like you have a possible freebie here?

    Either way I think you have a plan for 6.10 for the first five miles but if all is going well I think that plan will be ditched pretty quickly!

    Super sessions lately....great to see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    The risk to me is getting injured again if I push the body to the max for Dungarvan. The stretches and mobility work I've been doing since the FCE scan seem to be working a treat but I'm overly cautious that the back issues could return at any moment. Would prefer to keep the improvements going, than risk going back to the second half of 2021

    The roads in Dungarvan are notoriously uneven as well - crowned in the centre, sloped to each side - so will be focussed to keep to the centre as much as possible. Caused many a person an injury by sticking to the side of the road



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    There's a sub 60 pacer in Dungarvan right? 😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Ah ok that makes sense. I probably missed a line or two along the way but I thought you were basing target pace on fitness rather than risk or injury. Sensible so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Not officially but I do recall AMK saying there was an unofficial one the last time he ran there. I think he did sub 60 there that day but refused to tell anyone about that result 😜



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Paced to a sub 60 by the local Councillor - He was an official pacer - just wasn't publicized. I also do believe he posted on here back in the day.

    I'm quite modest about that result - so I kinda keep quiet about it. :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Delighted to see all the race reports coming in and especially a lot of them for a race I did as well - all of them gave me a chuckle or a "ah I remember that" moment, which I probably wouldn't have remembered otherwise. Guess I better add my own experiences of the race before I forget about it, although it is starting to become a distance memory already. From my session on the 26th January to the race on the 6th, my training consisted of mostly easy running with a 15x1' on/off run, 8x45" and some strides - pretty standard stuff that I won't waste time logging here. Was in a good place heading into the Sunday race but knew earlier in the week that it was going to be really windy

    Dungarvan 10

    Pre-race

    After granny arrived to look after our kids, myself and the OH left Cork in plenty of time and arrived in Dungarvan just before 10am. My usual anxiety about getting a "good" parking spot was not needed as we followed some other cars to a nearby housing estate just around the corner from the start line. Myself and the OH pre race warmup plans are a lot different as the queues for toilets are always a factor for women unfortunately, not for men as much. So off she set on our warmup while I started to drink my Maurten 320 - so bloody sweet!! I have a sweet tooth normally but even I find it too sweet. Did a 2 mile warmup and had to remove my second top halfway, was really warm despite the wind. Back to the car and changed into my Eagle singlet and Alphaflys, was no need for any extra layers to keep warm today. OH was still queuing for the toilet so made my way to the startline and met up with a few of my fellow Cork runners (Hobbyjoggers). There was official 60 minute pacer(s) so I hung back just a bit from them while the rest of the HJ went into that pace group area. Wasn't long before we all set off

    Race

    Part 1 - Finding my pace (6.04, 6.21, 6.00)

    Start of the race wasn't as crowded as I previously experienced here so probably started in the right area. Got to the first turn and experienced the strength of the headwind. Balloons on the 60 pacers didn't stand a chance as off they went towards the Irish Sea. Was seeing 5.50 on the watch here but knew the first mile of the race was net downhill. Reached the end of the starting triangle and off we set on the Cork road where things started to settle down a bit. Didn't even notice the first mile beeping (6.04). Next mile was the usual frequent back and forth between other runners trying to settle into their pace. I was deliberately keeping my pace in check here - long way to go. End of the mile had quite a hilly and muddy country road section, my poor white AFs would be ruined (6.21). As we were running past the finishing section for the first time, noticed I was a bit stranded at the wrong time, with the turn into the headwind at mile 3. There was a good group about 30-40m ahead of me so I decided I needed to input a burst of speed to catch them before the end of the finishing stretch - good decision in the end. With the increase in speed and a water station slowly them down, I was able to catch them without expending too much energy. Right Trev, just tuck in here for the next 2 miles

    Part 2 - Tucking in (6.30, 6.25)

    Was glad to read about all the suffering that everyone else (well maybe just jebuz) experienced during this 2 mile plus into the wind section. I had a lucky escape here I feel. I had integrated into the middle of the pack by the time we did the final turn directly into the wind. Watch was showing 6.09avg, if I could make it to the turn in 6.15avg I would be happy. Our group luckily had 2 6 foot plus runners at the front, running for different clubs, but seemed to be running together. I positioned myself right behind one of them, shamefully using and abusing him for my benefit. I focussed on the road, his shoes and just in front of him from time to time. If there was someone recording that 2 mile section, I could be arrested for Kevin Spacey type behaviour. Mile beeped and I saw a (6.30), which did kinda startle me but average pace was still ok. Any notion of me pushing on was extinguished whenever I popped my head to side and was greeted with the gusting wind. Back in your box, literally Next mile was more of the same, but thankfully the drag from the last mile was gone. Instead the road flattened out, but with that you were able to see just how far you had to go till the turn. Fifth mile came in at (6.25) but we still had some bit to go till the bloody turn, but at the least the end was in sight.

    As we came up to the turn, a Mallow AC runner started to pull away, so I followed him. In my head, I could only imagine the death wishes and expletives that my two men mountains and the rest of the group were throwing at me as I merely discarded them like a used tissue 😆 Avg pace was 6.15 so bang on. Was able to pass the Mallow runner just before the turn, now I was by myself and was ready to motor!

    Part 3 - Flake on home (6.05, 5.48, 5.55, 5.59, 5.49)

    Strange saying that I felt I was on the home stretch with just over half the race gone but it seemed like the worst was over with and the legs felt good to go. Straight away I was catching a group up ahead and going past them all really quickly. A few tried to go with me but were unable to keep up. Mile beeped at (6.05), but a chunk of that was against the wind before the turn. Next mile had a nice steep downhill section. Before that, I reached the notorious clock where the guy said "add a minute" - good job I don't pay any heed to these times. Downhill sections always worked to my advantage, suits my little legs, and I was continuing to pass a lot of people. Was worried that I was going too fast with still a bit to go. Saw a group of Leevale runners up ahead so said they would be an ideal group to stay with and catch my breath. However, I caught them on the downhill and before you know it, I was shot past them - guess I had no choice but to carry on.

    Next section of the course was previously a notorious ankle breaker - surface was very uneven. Thankfully, the road was resurfaced at some point so we had some nice smooth tarmac instead - so spoilt. Mile 7 in (5.48). Next mile was all about maintaining pace, there was a bit of a gap between me and the next group so I had a target to keep me going. Up ahead I could see the drag up to the main road and turnoff - seemed ages away. Mile 8 in (5.55). I managed to reach the group before the turnoff but the drag definitely hit the legs hard here. Was not pushing on past them like previously but it's to be expected with only 2 miles left. Was definitely suffering now going up the small drag, but I've suffered through similar pain during my sessions. I can see this out. Mile 9 in (5.59)

    Didn't seem like only a mile left, seemed like so much longer to go. There was a lot of watch glazing for this mile, hoping that the distance left would magically disappear. Knew that I would have to negotiate the small sharp hill after the next turn, so had that in the forefront of my mind. Turned the corner and forgot all the wind until it blasted into my face - ah $hite, wind and hill together. Decided to put the head down, make myself smaller (going against all hill sprinting form guidance) and try to power up the hill. Seemed to work until I got to the top, legs definitely did a wobble there, but there was no sign of the bloody finishing line yet! Had another bit to go before I caught glimpse of the finishing clock, just under 61 minutes. Grand job, no target to chase so no need to kill yourself to the line. That's until I reached the turn and the finishing adrenaline kicked in and put in a decent sprint to the line. Last mile was (5.49).

    Chip time: 61.12

    Grabbed some water and managed to catch up with the fellow HJs, all of whom had hit their sub 60 target and were in good spirits. Jealously is part of human nature and I did feel it here that my fellow training partners went sub 60 and I didn't. It's not in the legs just yet though

    Went back to the finish line to meet my OH, who finished an unbelievable 16th female overall in a talented field. She was busy chatting to other people as usual. Just at that moment, a really cold bout of rain fall so we had to leg it back to the car as it was fupping freezing

    Overall though, I cannot complain about that race at all - everything went according to plan and I think running a PB is always a massive achievement. Passing so many people in the second half of the race is a really good feeling. If the group I was running with into the wind were going 10-15 seconds faster, it would've been ideal but beggars can't be choosers. It's nearly a 5 minute improvement from 2 years ago but I know there's loads more to come and hopefully the sub 60 in Mallow. Bad thing about running a good race is the goal time for Adare 10k has to be revisited again! Legs are also in good knick afterwards



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    That's some finish after riding out the wind



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,420 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Nice going, congrats on the PB and a flawless execution of the plan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Super run - an amazing last 5m - top man.



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