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Spiral out - keep going

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  • Best of luck tomorrow morning pal. It's a nice bit of a free hit for you. Put that fitness of yours to the test and take whatever the morning brings you.
    Route is fair, but needs to be negotiated. Miles 6-10 is a bit of drag, nothing major but just be careful not to overdo it there. Once you turn left at 15k and have the Curragh on your right, you'll have a nice last 5k or so back into Kildare town. Wind will be in your favour too, so it's set up for a fast finish. I'll be at the 10 mile marker with some water so I'll keep an eye out for you. :)




  • healy1835 wrote: »
    Best of luck tomorrow morning pal. It's a nice bit of a free hit for you. Put that fitness of yours to the test and take whatever the morning brings you.
    Route is fair, but needs to be negotiated. Miles 6-10 is a bit of drag, nothing major but just be careful not to overdo it there. Once you turn left at 15k and have the Curragh on your right, you'll have a nice last 5k or so back into Kildare town. Wind will be in your favour too, so it's set up for a fast finish. I'll be at the 10 mile marker with some water so I'll keep an eye out for you. :)

    Thanks J, you'll hear the slap of the Alphaflys before you see me. I'll be in the Eagle black & yellow top




  • How's the body after Sunday?




  • healy1835 wrote: »
    How's the body after Sunday?

    Funny you should ask that, things went a bit downhill with my back after the race on Sunday. Guess I better do a quick update while I'm here to explain in more detail.

    Thoroughbred HM
    So the week before the race had me doing an easy 15x1' on/off session on Sunday and then all easy running for the week, with the mileage reducing as the race came closer. Felt in good nick, legs did feel a bit sluggish but remember them being like that before a TT. I was having the usual mental battle with myself all week, was really nervous about the race and was no doubt not nice to be around (my lucky family!)

    Race was on at 10am. 2 hour trip from Cork so got up at 5.30am. Quick bite to eat, bit of stretching, numerous toilet visits and I was on my way. Arrived in plenty of time and drank my Maurten 320 drink - it is soooo much sweeter than the 160 version. Did a 2 mile warmup out and back to the car. Forecast was meant to be cool and a bit of rain but could feel the heat during the warmup. Got changed into my race gear and headed up to check in for the start.

    The main street was full of runners. I had thought they were limited to 100 runners but looked like they were able to field more due to the staggered start times. It was a great sight to see. Went to the designated meeting point for our group, easy to find - just follow the NEXT% and Alphaflys shoes. The group were walked down to the starting point, felt like I was back in school going on a school tour.

    Had studied the course during the week and had healy's advice about miles 6-10 in my head. The plan was to head out at 6min pace till halfway and see how I was then. If I was in a group and going a bit slower at the start, that was fine too. We started and I settled into a nice pace early on - had a few runners around me so things looked good. Trouble was the pace settled at 6.10 which was a bit too slow. I picked it up a bit

    After going through the stud farm, pace was around the 6.05 mark and had a nice group around me - good to be in a race. I will say that I never felt comfortable even at that point but that how my training runs feel as well. Understandably, the roads were not closed for this race so spent a lot of time running on the edge of country roads and had to watch for uneven surfaces and potholes constantly.

    Onto mile 4 and next 2 miles were on a straight road that was quite favourable. Was able to up the pace here a bit and the group were starting to motor. Things were fine but I think it was around this time my back sent me a sharp shock to my brain. I thought nothing of it at the time except where did that come from, and carried on. We turned the corner and met the oncoming wind. I knew these miles were lumpy so knew this is where I needed to put the work in. I knew mile times would suffer but felt I could make it back towards the end of the race.

    The group started to stretch out and I did find myself drifting towards the back of it. I knew at this point I was in a spot of bother and started to drift off the back. Not sure what was causing it but I had nothing in the legs to push on and keep up. I was trying my best to maintain the pace but saw that the avg pace was dropping at this point. I was questioning everything - was it the heat, the wind, the hills, did I leave my race in my training, taper not easy enough, promised that I would never do a HM again & added another 10 mins to my marathon goal - the usual self talking when suffering.

    I kept saying get to the top turn and things might be different then. I got to the top and things were different but not for the better. I could only go one pace, certainty not faster, and didn't want to go any slower and prolong the suffering. I entered a calm state of agony in trying to get the race over and done with. I passed jhealy around this point, I was well into the pain cave at this point but was at ease with it. The thing is my breathing was fine, was now thanking all the people cheering me on, it was just my legs wouldn't allow me to go any faster.

    The last couple of miles felt like an eternity and there was one point that my legs nearly gave way - it was the only point where I thought I might have to stop. Thankfully I finished it out, no sign of a sprint at the end - was really disappointed with the result (1.22.56). Collected my goody bag and walked to the check out area. Talked with others from the group and thankfully they seemed to struggle too. It must've been how hot and humid it was. I got back to the car knowing I had to cool down - it was then when my lower back started to seize up. Attempted to do a cool down but couldn't even start it - I knew it wasn't going to happen.

    Had to do a pitstop on the drive back to Cork and could barely get out of the car. It was sore the rest of that day, but it really hit me yesterday. I was like a 90 year man for the whole day, unable to stand up at times, crawling around the house like a baby :D Today it is a small bit better but I'm booked in to see a physio tomorrow. There be no running for me (thankfully) for a few days, or rest of week. I'm not in a hurry to get back anyway.

    So thinking back to the race
    - yes the heat and humidity didn't help
    - yes I wouldn't have hit the target time in those conditions anyway
    - Hopefully the back issue caused the slowdown in pace in the second part of the race. That the body was protecting itself by reducing my mobility. I would definitely prefer that than knowing it wasn't in the legs and I wasn't able to put up a fight
    - yes I hate hiding behind excuses. I think it was an important race for me to have. Every runner has bad races, so I need to learn from this one
    - Finally, yes I will need to do some S&C work to prevent this from happening again (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!). Doesn't help when I work from home sitting at a desk all day. My posture wouldn't be great anyway




  • First of all Massive Congrats on the super PB especially in those conditions and for toughing it out. Would have been easy to spit out the dummy and totally ease off in that second half.
    Shows the progression you have made in the last year or more that sub 83 mins for HM is seen as a bad day at the office!

    Hope all goes well with the Physio.


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  • Congrats on the PB T, wasn't an easy one for you but you toughed it out! Hope the back is ok & all goes well at the physio:)




  • Treviso wrote: »
    Funny you should ask that, things went a bit downhill with my back after the race on Sunday. Guess I better do a quick update while I'm here to explain in more detail.

    Thoroughbred HM
    So the week before the race had me doing an easy 15x1' on/off session on Sunday and then all easy running for the week, with the mileage reducing as the race came closer. Felt in good nick, legs did feel a bit sluggish but remember them being like that before a TT. I was having the usual mental battle with myself all week, was really nervous about the race and was no doubt not nice to be around (my lucky family!)

    Race was on at 10am. 2 hour trip from Cork so got up at 5.30am. Quick bite to eat, bit of stretching, numerous toilet visits and I was on my way. Arrived in plenty of time and drank my Maurten 320 drink - it is soooo much sweeter than the 160 version. Did a 2 mile warmup out and back to the car. Forecast was meant to be cool and a bit of rain but could feel the heat during the warmup. Got changed into my race gear and headed up to check in for the start.

    The main street was full of runners. I had thought they were limited to 100 runners but looked like they were able to field more due to the staggered start times. It was a great sight to see. Went to the designated meeting point for our group, easy to find - just follow the NEXT% and Alphaflys shoes. The group were walked down to the starting point, felt like I was back in school going on a school tour.

    Had studied the course during the week and had healy's advice about miles 6-10 in my head. The plan was to head out at 6min pace till halfway and see how I was then. If I was in a group and going a bit slower at the start, that was fine too. We started and I settled into a nice pace early on - had a few runners around me so things looked good. Trouble was the pace settled at 6.10 which was a bit too slow. I picked it up a bit

    After going through the stud farm, pace was around the 6.05 mark and had a nice group around me - good to be in a race. I will say that I never felt comfortable even at that point but that how my training runs feel as well. Understandably, the roads were not closed for this race so spent a lot of time running on the edge of country roads and had to watch for uneven surfaces and potholes constantly.

    Onto mile 4 and next 2 miles were on a straight road that was quite favourable. Was able to up the pace here a bit and the group were starting to motor. Things were fine but I think it was around this time my back sent me a sharp shock to my brain. I thought nothing of it at the time except where did that come from, and carried on. We turned the corner and met the oncoming wind. I knew these miles were lumpy so knew this is where I needed to put the work in. I knew mile times would suffer but felt I could make it back towards the end of the race.

    The group started to stretch out and I did find myself drifting towards the back of it. I knew at this point I was in a spot of bother and started to drift off the back. Not sure what was causing it but I had nothing in the legs to push on and keep up. I was trying my best to maintain the pace but saw that the avg pace was dropping at this point. I was questioning everything - was it the heat, the wind, the hills, did I leave my race in my training, taper not easy enough, promised that I would never do a HM again & added another 10 mins to my marathon goal - the usual self talking when suffering.

    I kept saying get to the top turn and things might be different then. I got to the top and things were different but not for the better. I could only go one pace, certainty not faster, and didn't want to go any slower and prolong the suffering. I entered a calm state of agony in trying to get the race over and done with. I passed jhealy around this point, I was well into the pain cave at this point but was at ease with it. The thing is my breathing was fine, was now thanking all the people cheering me on, it was just my legs wouldn't allow me to go any faster.

    The last couple of miles felt like an eternity and there was one point that my legs nearly gave way - it was the only point where I thought I might have to stop. Thankfully I finished it out, no sign of a sprint at the end - was really disappointed with the result (1.22.56). Collected my goody bag and walked to the check out area. Talked with others from the group and thankfully they seemed to struggle too. It must've been how hot and humid it was. I got back to the car knowing I had to cool down - it was then when my lower back started to seize up. Attempted to do a cool down but couldn't even start it - I knew it wasn't going to happen.

    Had to do a pitstop on the drive back to Cork and could barely get out of the car. It was sore the rest of that day, but it really hit me yesterday. I was like a 90 year man for the whole day, unable to stand up at times, crawling around the house like a baby :D Today it is a small bit better but I'm booked in to see a physio tomorrow. There be no running for me (thankfully) for a few days, or rest of week. I'm not in a hurry to get back anyway.

    So thinking back to the race
    - yes the heat and humidity didn't help
    - yes I wouldn't have hit the target time in those conditions anyway
    - Hopefully the back issue caused the slowdown in pace in the second part of the race. That the body was protecting itself by reducing my mobility. I would definitely prefer that than knowing it wasn't in the legs and I wasn't able to put up a fight
    - yes I hate hiding behind excuses. I think it was an important race for me to have. Every runner has bad races, so I need to learn from this one
    - Finally, yes I will need to do some S&C work to prevent this from happening again (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!). Doesn't help when I work from home sitting at a desk all day. My posture wouldn't be great anyway


    Good effort and hard luck in this race.

    The conditions on these warm days are actually unusually sapping for this country. Many people have noticed the striking difference between an early morning session compared with how the same session feels later in the morning/day. Must be same for a race.

    You'll get a serious fitness boost from that race and you'll knock bigger chunks out of that PB next time.




  • demfad wrote: »
    Good effort and hard luck in this race.

    The conditions on these warm days are actually unusually sapping for this country. Many people have noticed the striking difference between an early morning session compared with how the same session feels later in the morning/day. Must be same for a race.

    You'll get a serious fitness boost from that race and you'll knock bigger chunks out of that PB next time.

    +1 the muggy humidity raises my heart rate by 5-10bpm for similar effort. Totally agree that its money in the bank in terms of fitness boost




  • The upside of being injured is not having to update this log.

    Visiting the physio last Wednesday to get the back checked out. The pain and stiffness had been easing but was still very tight. After the physio checked it out, pressure applied to certain areas, there didn't seem to be any serious damage done thankfully. Probably caused by combination of working from home work posture and the 2 hour drive to the race.

    Applying pressure to and working the back was uncomfortable at times but when she started working on the glutes, it was unbearable - pure torture. Tightness of the glutes could've added to the the back stress so will try to loosen them up too - sports massage booked for week. Looser glutes might make me run faster :p

    Running wise, I waited until Sunday to go for a run. Was going to start Friday but caught stupid manflu (headcold) so had to recover from that as well. Probably a blessing as the back felt normal by the time Sunday came around

    Sun 27th - 5m moderate, 7.31avg
    I decided on 2 laps of the Farm and to do it at a moderate pace between 7:30 & 8min pace. Apart from remnants of the headcold, everything went great - no sign of any back issues. Still didn't feel confident in it being fully recovered though.

    Mon 28th - 7m easy, 8:30avg
    Back to my usual easy distance - everything was good.

    Tues 29th - 7m easy, 8:24avg
    Same as above.

    Returned to the Physio on Wed for a followup. Everything back to normal it seems. Again the glute work was torture.

    Thurs 1st - 7m easy, 7:54avg
    Ran this one on tarmac to test the body on the harder surface. Legs felt very good so pace was a bit quicker than usual

    The plan for this week is 2 more easy runs of 7 miles and then back to a longer tempo run on Sunday. The plan is for [email protected]:40. The rest of the group are doing 14m at that pace. I will go along with them, see how I'm feeling and call the distance during the run. Just need the run to go well to get full confidence back




  • Have had a bit of work done on the piriformis right in the buttcheeks. My physio seems to get great pleasure torturing me with her elbow. It's a horrible horrible area to have to get work done.


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  • Have had a bit of work done on the piriformis right in the buttcheeks. My physio seems to get great pleasure torturing me with her elbow. It's a horrible horrible area to have to get work done.

    My guy brings out the needles at will. Glutes are often the culprit for so many problems




  • Tight glutes/piriformis definitely can cause back issues.

    I also find lots of sitting of driving plays havoc with my hip flexors and when they are too tight it also causes me back issues.

    Savage time by the way

    TbL




  • Thanks for sharing your own experiences with tight glutes; sounds like I have a lot of painful physio visits in front of me.




  • Did coach talk to you about an osteopath??




  • Did coach talk to you about an osteopath??

    Yea, if the injury pops up again I will be venturing down to Clonakilty for a visit




  • Jaysus - 6-9 months to 'get right'

    Never suffered from it myself but from listening to 'Inside Running' - Shoe Geeks - they often talk about the choice of shoe and the impact on those runners who have dodgy achilles - moreso in terms of running with no pain (but I know its not 'fixing' the issue).

    I'd also start to question the cause of it - is there something further up the chain pulling at it or even pulling at something that pulls at it?





  • Seeing as you asked for advice! I've had on going Achilles issues since DCM 2018. Post marathon they were both really quite sore and swollen at the point of insertion. Both settled after a couple of weeks rest & maybe iced them occasionally. However ever since then the right one has caused trouble. Like your experience, it would be sore for the first 10-15mins of a run, after extended periods sitting, or first thing in the morning it was tight & painful until it warms up. Earlier this year joined a research study in UCD in relation to Achilles issues. Honestly I felt a bit of a fraud as it wasn't really impacting my day to day life in the sense that I've been running on it since 2018 & able to work/function day to day but the assessment did show a chronic issue so I was accepted. I had to follow the Alfredson Protocol, 2 exercises (eccentric heels drops) * 3 sets, twice a day for 12 weeks and track progress in an app. I was assessed regularly during the 12 weeks and at the mid point the improvement was significant. The final assessment showed that the right achilles is actually stronger than the left one now. So in a long winded way I'm saying that the Alfredson protocol seems to have worked for me. I still do the exercises but only 2-3 times per week now and I do them on both sides whereas during the study I only did the problematic right leg. I carried on running during the study but I did notice a lot of fatigue doing the heel drops on running days, sometimes it felt like I was going backwards and without commitment to the study I probably wouldn't have kept going. I know the Alfredson protocol gets mixed opinions online but my experience is fairly positive.





  • I would imagine there is something amiss further up the body that might be elevating the recent issues. Something I need to investigate further with an osteopath. However, I've been so lucky with injuries since I start running without doing any sort of stretching, strengthening or additional work. It's more than likely that the intensity of the training finally caught up with me. Need to strengthen those muscles in order to get the training levels back to the same intensity.



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  • Thanks for taking the time to provide that information. I looked up Alfredson protocol and the exercises are exactly what I have been doing since the first physio visit. Confirmed with him today that he uses that treatment for these types of injuries. Glad to hear that it worked for you. I know it will be a long term fix but the fact that I can keep running with it is a big plus.





  • Will look to do some form of a race in Oct/Nov, before switching to a few 5k races in December. Will then begin a hopefully normal racing and injury free 2022


    We'll do a couple of 5k races, realise just how bl00dy tough they are and then be scrambling to sign up for the next available Marathon!!





  • 5k's, 😯





  • @AuldManKing @healy1835 There’s a 2-mile race every Tuesday night in Raheny for the next four weeks. Open to all. Just sayin’ 😉

    Post edited by Murph_D on




  • Tuesday night?? ah no - I'm doing my tan those nights.



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