ESRI confirms Irish welfare dependent population is TWICE that of Germany or France

So why do people think we are twice Germany or France?

Bad policy? Bad culture? Soft touch unbalanced media.

Id go media which bred policy which bred culture but would like to know others thoughts.

It's hard to know.

I know four working-age adults who are all on long-term welfare.

It could be argued that all four could do some job.

Two of the four choose long-term welfare as a lifestyle choice, do a nixer, drive an AUDI Q5 SUV, and have received 100,000 in college grants.

They have a house (5-bed detached) and lifestyle associated with people who work.

There is no reason to think they are special or unique.

So I have to presume there are people like this everywhere?

The other two are single men, who are not, shall we say, the "most employable" people in the world.

However, is there some job they could do? Yes.

But we are too soft on them.

If you are pushing me for a figure, I'd say there are 100,000 working-age adults who could be moved from long-term welfare to employment.

The problem is the lack of Jeopardy. People might be unemployable when they have alternatives but if the alternative is death, they usually find a way to be employable. I would probably be the same way. It also explains why wealth is almost impossible to retain over multiple generations despite the huge advantages from generous inheritance tax policies and why wars lead to eras of greatest innovation. Without jeopardy we can do nothing. Necessity is the mother of invention. Speaking personally, the only reason I began working was because my parents said we will give you dinner, bed and an education, anything else is up to you. And I was very entitled to get those things. Some kids do not get that and that is why we have welfare not to support adults for life and to take away their jeopardy, diminishing their agency in life.

Of the 4 people the poster mentioned he personally knows, 2 are in need of support. I don’t think anyone would argue that. The other 2 clearly need no extra support and should be working. That’s who needs targetting but every single time that is mentioned, it gets shot down as anecdotal or it’s an unknown number of people. We all live in the community and can see who is playing the system. It is much harder to see the ones that need help and very often they don’t get it because they simply don’t know how.

"Yes back to the lowest income bracket. We must reduce the level its believed people need to survive."

I'd argue those working on low-ish wages are in the lowest income bracket as study after study confirms the generosity (over generosity IMO) of the Irish welfare system. I know several people depending on welfare. None, zero are "struggling to survive". Not one.

Who'd have thought on a thread about the welfare dependent population most posts would be about........ welfare

I'd suggest if you want to analyse the generosity(over generosity again IMO) of the Irish pension system maybe start a thread? I'd hazard a guess a lot of people who think welfare is over generous would also agree with on such a thread

Welfare.

But we should be honest.

If people are long-term on JSA, and make no effort to find work, then either offer them paid work, or they move off JSA to SWA.

Read the Barrington lecture given by Barra Roantree of the ESRI:

See slide 20. We have loads of working-age adults with no market income.

It is not anecdotal, it is a fact.

See slide 21 and 22 - we have loads of lone parents, more than other countries, and they have low employment rates. Why? Part of the answer is the design of the welfare state itself. Ours system seems to encourage lone parenthood.

See slide 23, it's unreal. 19% of working-age adults living alone say permanently disabled/unfit for work, miles ahead of anywhere else.

PS pensions have been reformed.

The PS pension scheme since 2013 is less generous.

Table 1

2012 DA = 102,000

2017 DA = 134,000

Hard to explain approx 30% growth over five years?

All cases are 'real genuine cases' in that they meet the criteria set out. I've heard of people with amputations being called for review to see if the limb has grown back yet, and people with Down Syndrome called for review to see if they have been miraculously cured over night. Reviews happen all the time. Fear of losing DA is a major deterrent to people with disabilities taking up employment, which can be a bit of a gamble for them and for the employer.

I don't see why anyone "deserves" anything. It's a bizarre perspective. Why would anyone deserve something?