Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

CatInABox · 05-12-2021 9:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118221873#Comment_118221873

They even did it with Return of the Jedi, they promised David Prowse a cut of the profits, but thanks to their accounting tricks, the film never turned a profit, which is plainly ridiculous. Apparently he was leaking plot points for the last couple of movies, so they really didn't like him. They even gave him lines that didn't match, so he was going around telling people that Obi Wan was Luke's father.

See more here on it.

For me, Dune was amazing, definitely see it in a cinema if you can.

Slydice · 10-12-2021 11:06pm

WB have the first 10 minutes up on youtube:

From the opening credits to the point when

The Reverend Mother eyeballs Jessica and Jessica knows what's being thought about so glances at Paul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFa0jyEOcVw

First time I thought to look for a Bene Tleilax. At a guess, maybe the dude in the black sash towards the end of that clip.

Need a Username · 15-12-2021 9:30am

I’m trying to find good books for a friend’s kid.

I’ve never read Dune but if the film is an accurate adaptation then this book could be okay.

Does the book go more into more details about concubines? The seem to be no different to wives and girlfriends?

are the female characters given good character development?

is first book a standalone story ?

_CreeD_ · 16-12-2021 1:18pm

I read the original 6 many moons ago and just started re-reading, have only gotten to the start of book 2 so my memory may be a little fuzzy. Book-1 ends around where the Lynch movie did which is at the end of the current Atreides/Baron/Emperor war on Dune. Book 2 continues from there years later but is a very different kind of story so in a sense if you had to stop at Book-1 you could without a cliffhanger dragging at you. Female characters get much more time in the later books with the last 2 in particular focusing mostly on them. But this is a series that literally spans thousands of years so characters will change a lot over that time.

pixelburp · 16-12-2021 1:31pm

Tangential to Dune, but looks like Villeneuve will be tackling Arther C. Clarke's "Rendevous with Rama" once finished with Dune Part 2. Obviously it puts a small question-mark on his availability to direct any further Dune sequels - though equally, we're getting into serious tea-leaves territory as well.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/denis-villeneuve-rendezvous-with-rama-movie-1235062337/

Sad Professor · 16-12-2021 2:08pm

Messiah takes place 12 years after the events of Dune so would probably benefit from a gap of a few years. I don’t think Villeneuve would be doing any more Dune films beyond that. He only seems interested in the first two books.

Slydice · 16-12-2021 11:08pm

The one big takeaway I had of the book was that it felt Densely Packed.

I found it a struggle to get through just that the ideas from the mini-series kept me chugging along.

After getting used to it, it felt like the right way to take in Herberts idea by the time I got to his last book with Beverly and then afterwards, even his last book.

Wow.. didn't even have to google her name and I can only remember encountering it at the end of that book.

Riddle101 · 17-12-2021 11:12am

It would be interesting to see all the Dune books made into movies, but it's not realistic if you ask me. At best, they could probably make movies out of the first three books but the latter three are somewhat convoluted if you ask me. I enjoyed them but I can see why a casual moviegoer might be put off by the movies when you have explain things like the Golden Path and make it interesting enough to keep people invested in the story. If the last three books are made into the movies it would probably only serve the hardcore fanbase.

Dufflecoat Fanny · 17-12-2021 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335810#Comment_118335810

Animation is the only job

Slydice · 17-12-2021 10:40pm

I can't see it not-dropping chunks of audience if/when they get to it. A mini-series streaming event would probably be the way to cover it but.. keeping the audience given the transformation.. I dunno. Maybe it could be done real special like to keep audience.. I just can't imagine how.

monkeyactive · 21-12-2021 11:35pm

Folks is the 1984 Film as bad as they say? Is it even worth watching? Would it spoil the upcoming sequels plot wise?

EltonJohn69 · 21-12-2021 11:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358866#Comment_118358866

Worth a watch, perfect family Christmas movie

odyssey06 · 22-12-2021 10:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358866#Comment_118358866

It has flashes of brillance and flashes of wtf... a hot mess.

It covers the second part of the story so will spoil. For curiosity sake you could watch first half of it

22-12-2021 10:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358866#Comment_118358866

Absolutely worth watching, a crazy film in so many ways. It will spoil the sequel to the newer one. But it has plot elements from the book that the newer film left out.

pixelburp · 22-12-2021 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358866#Comment_118358866

Answered already but to add my own 2 cents: it's ... unique. Ironically, despite conveying more info about the world and its characters (though literal talking to the audience or lots [LOTS] of voiceover), in many ways the 1984 film is leagues more impenetrable than the Villeneuve film. Regarding spoiling, yes it covers the entirety of the first book so how things shake out for Paul & Friends will be spoiled.

However, it's a mental film; absolutely arresting madness captured on screen. You know how people say "they don't make them like that anymore?". This is a good example 'cos there's no way any studio would ever give a known art-house auteur a blockbuster film again (probably because of flops like Dune 1984). Just for the production design and style alone it's worth watching, sometimes resembling a mad fever-dream than something tangible or real.

Not objectively a "good" film, far from it. But it won't be a film you'll quickly forget either.

The White Wolf · 22-12-2021 11:13am

I watched the 1984 film only last week and I thought it started promisingly but quickly becomes hilarious with its pacing and acting. Worth a watch alright but if I could make the choice again, I would have waited until after the sequel to the 2021 film.

Speaking of which we rewatched it again this week and it's as good now after watching it just a month or so ago. Last film I was able to do that with was from 2008.

pixelburp · 22-12-2021 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118359977#Comment_118359977

What was the film from 2008, I'm curious? 😀

I'm looking forward to watching this again too; Warners actually shared the (unedited?) first 10 minutes of the film, presumably to stoke interest in the digital release. Just got me itching to have another trip to Arrakis...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFa0jyEOcVw

L'prof · 22-12-2021 1:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360184#Comment_118360184

Film from 2008 was surely the groundbreaking Sex and the City movie. That or The Dark Knight but I’m leaning towards SATC for some reason 😅

The White Wolf · 22-12-2021 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360525#Comment_118360525

I'll give you this, you mentioned one of them. ;)

Shred · 22-12-2021 8:32pm

I had very, very vague recollections of the Lynch movie from when my older siblings watched it when I was younger. But I did watch it last year in anticipation of this and thought it was absolutely dreadful; for me it's the kind of film people who poke fun at Sci-Fi could use to beat Sci-Fi fans to death with. It feels so rushed and many of the character portrayals are fairly laughable (even taking the age of the film into consideration); Baron Harkonnen for instance (all due respect to Kenneth McMillan who was a likeable actor in many other things)! It almost feels like a parody!

I can understand people have affection for it if they saw it in/around when it came out, but it really doesn't stand up to modern scrutiny, not least when measured against the latest iteration (a bit unfair, I know).

Need a Username · 31-12-2021 6:28am

I watched Dune 1984 last night.

I didn’t know what to expect of the film itself but I had a feeling that it would be a chore to watch.

However I really enjoyed it. The synopsis on iTunes says “dazzling special effects, unforgettable images and powerful performances” - however said that must sucking on spice. The worms look good the VFX are terrible (the personal shields are ridiculous) considering Empire Strikes Back and Blade Runner come out first - Last Starfighter was the same year and I’m pretty sure VFX were better than Dune back then.

Nothing great about the acting but nothing terrible.

What it does have is ambition and imagination. The set designs are great (the sets in the 2021 are dull), the vehicles and their controls look at least a bit futuristic (2021 version had helicopters with modern control panels), the costumes are colourful (2021 version seem more or less the same just Dean colours, although Rebecca Ferguson’s costumes are very good), they show us the capital and the Emperor, and the Naviagtors Guild is a fun and interesting element (both left out of the 2021 version).

The Guild is clearly important and if they really should have had more than a single mention in Part 1 - the Emperor at least has been properly established as a threat even though he hasn’t been on screen. Are the Navigators in the books also mutated creatures that wanted Paul dead?

The “second half” of the story in the 1984 version is far too rushed. They explain everything but more time should have been given to the sister. She and Paul have no screen time together prior to the battle.

A few at least of Paul not wanting the sister involved in the battle is needed because when she suddenly shows up in the heart of the enemies stronghold and that it was Paul’s palm it makes him seem like a dick regardless of what powers she has. Or how creepy she is.

Still it is a lot fun and there was effort out into designing it.

I had a feeling watching the new version that Gurney survives. I can’t make out some of the dialogue when Paul finds him - is he saying the guys they are fighting are smugglers? Has Gurney become a criminal?

Need a Username · 31-12-2021 6:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118362668#Comment_118362668

The new version has better acting and a better script and the advantage of more time to tell the story.

In regards to design and imagination the 1984 version is better. The look and designs of the new version are drab.

The VFX of the 1984 one are woeful (except for the worms) - the VFX of the new are are nothing special.

monkeyactive · 03-01-2022 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358866#Comment_118358866

I got around to watching this anyway , up to the point where Paul joins the Fremen so that I wouldn't spoil the new sequels. As warned its a real mess. Some amazing looking pieces but a very frustrating experience watching it as I felt that it could almost have been great if its problems had been addressed. I watch a youtube doc about it and it seems that Lynch believed he had a Trilogy of films to work with but only found out during filming that he would only get one hence the awful pacing and general confusion throughout.

The art work for the prologue/into was a very bad start. Really terrible.

Slydice · 03-01-2022 10:15pm

Yeah, it's felt really wierd seeing people recommend watching the 1984 version.

Badly quality, not the directors original vision, gives away the story for part two of this modern one.

yourdeadwright · 04-01-2022 6:13pm

Never seen this or even know anything Dune so my question is should i watch it ?

SuprSi · 04-01-2022 6:20pm

Well if you're a sci-fi fan then you definitely should!

~Rebel~ · 05-01-2022 3:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417302#Comment_118417302

Though equally, if you're a fan of sci-fi, I'd say go read the book, and then watch it.

TheIrishGrover · 05-01-2022 10:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118394612#Comment_118394612

I think that's a bit harsh TBH. (But, each to their own. Mine is just a personal opinion). I thought the design of Dune 21 was amazing. The sheer scale of everything.. Mind you, I did go to see it in the cinema - the scale will be lacking on a TV, no matter how big. Of course it is a bit unfair to compare a max-budget 21st Century movie by a director given total control and trust from studio to Lynch's famously restricted version. The costume design for the scene with the Emperor's herald was fantastic. The set design: Caladin surrounded by lushness but the Atreides household quite spare and martial without being a military base. Arakkis sets all about being large rooms and corridors. There was some spectacular costume design in Dune 84 also (Let's just try to ignore Sting's thong, OK?). The Navigator and their entourage for example. But... The gaudiness at times got me thinking about Flash Gordon. All it was missing was a bare-chested Brian Blessed as Duncan Idaho

I thought the effects were flawless, which can actually be a double-edged sword: They were seamless. You simply accepted the ornithopters, the worms, the cityscapes, the scale. Here is a director who knows how to direct scale (And Arrival shows he knows how to direct a more sedate pace. Both of these REALLY bode well for him doing Rama after Dune Part 2. Inspired choice). Obviously this is also just part 1. The vast majority of Part 2 will be smaller scale with the Fremen and all the political machinations. Will be interesting to see this juxtaposition between the parts.

That may be a bit pointy-beard navel-gazing, I apologize. I just like cinematography/movie design... I don't even have a pointy beard :). I will agree with you on this: The design is a bit more...... restrained than Dune 84 but, IMHO, I prefer this restraint over trying to be the next grown up Star Wars/less kinky Flash Gordon that Dune 84 was attempting

pixelburp · 05-01-2022 11:14am

I think both films' designs are fabulous myself, but both coming from different perspectives: the 1984 film let its imagination run wild with borderline impractical insanity; while the latter-day movie tried to imagine designs both distinctly "alien" to our sensibilities, yet familiar all the same.

I will say, I preferred and loves the Herald of the 2021 film; specifically what I presumed to be spice-infused navigators? The guys with the helmets fogged with orange gas. A spectacular introduction to the world

Slydice · 05-01-2022 1:22pm

Yep, the 1984 sure would spoiler the second part (next film) of this modern one.

It sure is something reading how annoyed the director of the 1984 film was about how wrecked that film was:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)#Editing

Editing

The rough cut of Dune without post-production effects ran over four hours long, but Lynch's intended cut of the film (as reflected in the seventh and final draft of the script) was almost three hours long. Universal and the film's financiers expected a standard, two-hour cut of the film. Dino De Laurentiis, his daughter Raffaella and Lynch excised numerous scenes, filmed new scenes that simplified or concentrated plot elements and added voice-over narrations, plus a new introduction by Virginia Madsen. Contrary to rumor, Lynch made no other version besides the theatrical cut. A television version was aired in 1988 in two parts totaling 186 minutes; it replaced Madsen's opening monologue with a much longer description of the setting that used concept art stills. Lynch disavowed this version and had his name removed from the credits, Alan Smithee being credited instead. The name Alan Smithee is a pseudonym used by directors who wish not to be associated with a film for which they would normally be credited. The extended and television versions additionally credit writer Lynch as Judas Booth. This version (without recap and second credit roll) has occasionally been released on DVD as Dune: Extended Edition. Several longer versions have been spliced together.[15] Although Universal has approached Lynch for a possible director's cut, Lynch has declined every offer and prefers not to discuss Dune in interviews.[16]

monkeyactive · 05-01-2022 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417252#Comment_118417252

See the posts above yours , Its not a good film in any sense but its fairly unforgettable and has moments of brilliance. I found it painful myself but glad I saw it. If you watch past the plot point where the New Dune finished up you'll spoil the upcoming sequel.

Need a Username · 05-01-2022 1:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419856#Comment_118419856

I did see Dune 2021 at the cinema. Flawless VFX yes, but that is nothing surprising - they had the money and talent. VFX on a movie with money and talent really only get flawed when trying are breaking new ground. Dune 2021 wasn’t doing anything that require pushing the envelope.

It was Dune 2984 that I saw in a TV. And it still looked more large scale and epic.

But what stands out in 1985 is the designs. Just about everything looks otherworldly about the ships and sets. Nothing about the locations or sets stood out in 2021.

Seamless effects are not a double edge sword to me - a great design is a great design. VFX in Blade Runner 2049 are also flawless but everything look beautiful and futuristic. Seamless effects are but the cause of the problem with the ornithopters - the problem is that they are out of pace with the spaceships and the fighter craft. Those look otherworldly but the helicopter looks like something we have now and the controls are buttons and nobs. And look 1980s.

I don’t think fussiness is a word I would use for anything in 1984 but yes there was element of Something I can’t quite describe that a lot of specs sci-fi had back then including Flash Gordon. The Navigator entourage was wearing bin bags but was was good about it was that they explored the Dune universe outside Paul’s story. I know Villenue want to do this from Paul’s POV but without exploring the universe it leaves 2021 lacking.

“Star Wars for grown ups” is how Villenue described the books. I don’t know if he said that “grown up Star Wars” is what he wanted to make but I didn’t see anything more about adult or anything like that. No doubt the comment ruffled some feathers but I read the interview and there was no evidence that offence was meant not that he was putting down Star Wars. The comment actually got me more interested but in the end there was nothing “grown up”.

I’m not saying 2021 was a bad movie. It just didn’t fire my imagination and nothing in it looked special.

No one can ignore Sting’s thong. Or forget. :p

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2022 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420772#Comment_118420772

Im talking about the new Dune is it good

generic_throwaway · 05-01-2022 1:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097265#Comment_118097265

I have known 'big movie fans' who go to just about anything that comes out in the cinema. I'm thinking of a couple of folks in particular (not generalising) and they have terrible taste. They enjoy complete bilge but don't like anything different, original or surprising.

So...I'd usually have a set of trusted reviewers and if they say something is good, I'd usually find the same (subjectively, of course). And if they say something is bad, they are always right.

Cordell · 05-01-2022 2:00pm

The 1984 film is quite bad, it has its moments but it tries to cram to much. If you want a proper introduction to the lore either read the book or watch the 2000 mini-series (which is no too bad, quite dated, but at least it gets almost everything right).

_CreeD_ · 08-01-2022 7:50am

The 1984/Lynch's movie for it's time was stunning, yes even the FX. I was there when it was a new release on VHS at least :) . Weird, gross, and cheesy but considering every scifi movie (and there were few then that weren't direct to tape) was trying to be Star Wars for over a decade it was a gem at the time for it's originality, design and vision. Nowadays yes it's clunky but trust me if you were a nerd and got to watch it in those days it was more of a triumph for it's time than the current version (and I love the current more, just in comparison to the few other offerings there were at the time).

Cordell · 08-01-2022 12:42pm

I don't know, the Lynch's version looks like something done by a director that discovered acid 20 years too late :)

The 2021 one is good but a bit too shallow, I don't know if it works for someone that is not familiar with the universe.

johnny_ultimate · 08-01-2022 12:52pm

Lynch’s film is almost certainly the worst film Lynch has made, and undoubtedly the most compromised. But it’s a film of mad vision from almost every creative department - art design, set design, SFX, music, cinematography, the works. It was a hypnotically weird cinema experience when I saw the re-release last year - an admirable fiasco of a film loaded with memorably surreal, grotesque, majestic moments. Fundamentally flawed in so many ways (some beyond the filmmakers’ control, and some not), and yet its sheer depth of ambition can’t be denied. The music and sound design alone - blasted out at deafening volume in a theatre - made me feel as if I was having a fever dream 😅

In contrast I think Villineuve makes films that leave me cold and totally unmoved - partially by design, granted, but in a way that often has me tuning out long before the credits roll. I can absolutely admire some of the design here (the towering spaceships are gloriously eerie) but there’s a certain clinical, ‘prestige’ style to the filmmaking that just leaves me at a remove. This is undoubtedly a ‘superior’ film in many objective senses - the fact that it actually has any pacing at all is a step up from the Lynch film 😂 And yet it failed to get under my skin in the way Lynch’s manic, flawed take on the material did.

Also, it’d be mad not to watch Lynch’s film for fear of ‘spoilers’. The Dune story is incredibly simple and predictable stuff - it’s the world-building and imagery that stand out much more.

Need a Username · 08-01-2022 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420837#Comment_118420837

It is good.

Solid VFX, good acting for the most part (Issac never seems like he the character needed to be there, Momoa just Momoa) .

I knew it would be good because of who was involved but I was just expecting something visually spectacular - I don’t know what it was exactly only that it didn’t happen.

I do recommend it though. It is a great story,

Need a Username · 08-01-2022 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420865#Comment_118420865

Are the people with bad taste and you trusted reviewers the same people?

Your post makes it seem like they are

Need a Username · 08-01-2022 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118438476#Comment_118438476

I think I would have like to experience the 1984 movie in a cinema.

my view on both is similar to yours - I really enjoyed the 1984 and it had me doing the “pew-pew” laser guns as the credits rolled.

The 2021 didn’t leave me cold like it did you but it didn’t leave me wanting to fly around in a rocket ship either.

The world building also stands out more for me.

After Blade Runner 2049 Denis Villenue was added to list of proper who should have directed Star Wars in the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Dune confirms this.

pixelburp · 08-01-2022 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437658#Comment_118437658

Some of the optical effects in the 1984 film have aged really poorly. Thinking of , for instance, the navigator creating the wormholes in the ship at the start. But then those optical FX always did look very poor, regardless - and even worse on modern high definition televisions.

No idea how movies of that era got made but I've also imagined Lynch had little presence in workshoping the FX phase (but could be way off base there). He doesn't seem interested in the technical aspects of filmmaking

johnny_ultimate · 08-01-2022 2:30pm

It’s not a ‘good’ effect in the traditional sense, but the force field effect in the original film is certainly quite the spectacle - like two giant polygons fighting each other!

generic_throwaway · 09-01-2022 8:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118438748#Comment_118438748

No, I don't think it does.

Need a Username · 09-01-2022 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445601#Comment_118445601

It does

Need a Username · 09-01-2022 8:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118438840#Comment_118438840

A lot VFX age poorly.

Doesn’t take away from the intent and ambition though or that it was good at the time

Need a Username · 09-01-2022 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118438873#Comment_118438873

It was quite jarring at first and I thought they should have left out the shields but later (and looking back on it) it was indeed something.

Where the shields in the new version visible when in use or when was an impact?

pixelburp · 09-01-2022 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445718#Comment_118445718

Of course, never impugned the ambition, and I much prefer the "practical" era of FX to modernity; love the ingenuity that was often applied, sometimes feeling like DIY magic. But even by 1984s standards Dune's effects were a bit shonky - Return of the Jedi was only the year before this, ILM leading the way - and the problem with the HD era is it makes those rougher FX pop out even more.

Not just FX; you watch something like Star Trek's remastered Next Generation series, and you really see the screws in the sets, the frayed edges in the carpeting - little details hidden by the then lower fidelity TVs. There's an argument to be made that these films and TV series are best enjoyed in SD, not a definition that exaggerates flaws.

Need a Username · 09-01-2022 9:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445899#Comment_118445899

Sorry I didn’t mean to suggest you were impugning it.

I understood your comment about aging badly as the statement of fact it is - I just myself that a lot of VFX the same even in the 90s and 00s

I think I compared the VFX of Dune 1984 to the Star Wars trilogy myself when I posted about it. I said the same of Clash of the Titans.

It is hard to believe the VFX are from the same time. Kind of like my subconscious thought once ILM share the knowledge or something

I haven’t seen remastered TNG but saw the same those issues in the Kirk remasters. I forget them afterward but the mannequin corpse in The Naked Time is one.

generic_throwaway · 09-01-2022 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445704#Comment_118445704

Well if you find it confusing when someone refers to group A in one paragraph* and then refers to group B in the next paragraph^, I can see how that might be the case.

*e.g. 'Big movie fans with bad taste'

^e.g. 'trusted reviewers'

Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

Comments