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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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    #8042
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    What does the future hold for Donald Trump? In contemplating his expected run for the Republican 2024 presidential nomination, let Ireland and the other world democracies not forget what happened earlier this year. Especially now, when Trump’s supporters are trying a bit of revisionist history, including hundreds of arrested defendants, reclaiming that it was a peaceful crowd that broke into the congressional building on that day of infamy.

    Fortunately, there are hours of videos to show the mob violence as it happened, and ironically, many of those video recordings of violence were made by Trump supporters and posted online by them. Lots of mob violence face time on mobiles.

    The hallmark of America as the world’s leading democracy was its peaceful transition of power between presidents after elections. That dramatically changed on 6 January 2021 when sitting President Donald Trump encouraged a mob of his supporters at a rally within sight of the Capitol to violently break into the building while the US Congress was in session.

    People died and were injured as a result, and Congress was forced to flee for their lives while the violent mob of Trump supporters with Trump hats and flags smashed their way through police barricades, windows, and doors, injuring many Capitol police officers, including the death of one.

    The Republican Vice President, whom chaired the congressional session per the US Constitution, had to flee to safety, while many Trump supporters shouted hang Mike Pence! Because Pence would not betray his constitutional duties to certify the Biden win, they saw him as a traitor to their Trump cause. An ominous rope with noose was prominently displayed for hanging Pence immediately outside the Capitol building.

    A more important question for us than what does the future hold for Donald Trump, is what does the future hold for Ireland and the other democracies if Trump is allowed to slip away after that day of infamy, and worse, if he once again occupies the Oval Office, and then refuses to leave it peacefully, again?



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    #8043
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭briany


    The fact of the matter is that there is a large group of people in the United States who will never turn their back on Trump no matter how much evidence you offer that he is a crazy charlatan (the speech he gave at the Capitol, the conversations on tape with Bob Woodward, the call to Georgia SoS trying to 'find' 10,000 more votes). They're living in a whole other reality.



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    #8044
    Brid Hegarty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295027#Comment_118295027

    And a lot of them are dying from covid I assume. And even if they weren't they tend to be the older population so a certain amount of them will have died over this 4 year term lessening his Trump's chances more.



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    #8045
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293962#Comment_118293962

    Yes, there were a few overzealous individuals on Jan6 and they should have been prosecuted. But the vast majority of those you call rioters are best represented by this Public Enemy Number One...

    https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2021-01/12/22/tmp/0308066dc00f/9a5e411bcef2895088754ac24a6568bc-23.jpg?crop=625:327;0,89

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #8046
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,156 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295705#Comment_118295705

    overealous? people died.



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    #8047
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,867 ✭✭✭Christy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295705#Comment_118295705

    Overzealous people who killed someone? I believe that is exactly what people are talking about when they say revisionist history. I have said before I was tracking the donald.win before and after that err... "kerfuffle". The tone shift was immediate from egging on violence to pretending they were always perfectly peaceful and never discussed violence.



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    #8048
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,979 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295793#Comment_118295793

    719 charged so far. In the US not everyone arrested is charged. So far more arrested. Overzealous is trolling.


    Noto needs help.



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    #8049
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295906#Comment_118295906

    The only person killed in the protest was a unarmed woman protestor who was climbing through a window by an overzealous police officer. Why does your side keep that proven lie that anyone else was killing, going? Do you not see how comments like that are laughable when you talk about other's lies?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #8050
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293017#Comment_118293017

    Trump and all other former US Presidents are not above the law. But we both know the Legislative Branch of the government often works against the president for pure political reasons, the 2 purely political impeachments of Trump are prime examples, and Executive Privilege helps guard from compulsory process of the legislative or judicial branches of the government, and maintains the separation of powers.


    I lived through Watergate. The crooks and those who masterminded it should have been arrested. But the spying of the opposing campaigns was nothing new. John F Kennedy was great at it. Nixon was stupid and got caught in the cover-up as he had nothing to do with the break-in. It would have been better for him to have taken the tapes out on the Whitehouse lawn and burned them. Nowadays they just gain FISA warrants to spy on the other campaign by fraudulent means… and get away with it.


     Do you think all the high ranking democrats, included Obama who demanded to be kept abreast of the spying as it happened according to sources, should be prosecuted, for their part in the apparent criminal FISA warrant by lies, deceit, and forgeries to spy on Trump’s campaign?


    And there is no similarities between Capone and Nixon investigations to the aids, advisors, and associates of Donald Trump. Ridiculous.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #8051
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,979 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Nixon drove the coverup. You're not the only one here that lived through Watergate. Plenty of his aides went to prison.


    Keep your revisionism to Trump. Remember that Ford pardoned Nixon.



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    #8052
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,483 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295705#Comment_118295705

    Do you hold the view that BLM protests were nothing really and only for a few overzealous individuals were nothing to even think about?



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    #8053
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,867 ✭✭✭Christy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295971#Comment_118295971

    lol overzealous police officer. Not sure what female has to do with it but she was female. Given over 100 police officers were hospitilised that day do you think he should have stuck around to find out how peaceful this group forcing themselves through a window to get at the elected representatives. The ones shouting murder with a nice noose outside? The same ones who had been calling for violence against Pelosi, Biden and Pence beforehand and during?


    You are correct the death I was thinking of was later ruled natural though the events of that day affected. I change my statement to the "overzealous" people who hospitilised over 100 police officers.



    Other people's lies? Are you going with that with a straight face? Aside from pushing the big lie on here and supporting the man whose main constant is lying?



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    #8054
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296197#Comment_118296197

    As in the case of the few overzealous protestors that caused destruction of property in the capital should be prosecuted, the same should have happened with the many BLM and antifa protestors that caused destruction of property and harm from their violent actions.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #8055
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,237 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296499#Comment_118296499

    Define "few"



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    #8056
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296339#Comment_118296339

    "But Trump" is not a good look, to signal out Trump supporters while turning a blind eye to similar events. Do you hold there should be equal justice under the law? Do you hold the hundreds of thousand of protestors across American cities that caused injury to police officers and property damage, primarily by BLM and antifa from reports, should ALL be prosecuted like the several hundred on Jan 6? In 2000 the police association noted 2,000 law enforcement officers were injured during those protests.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #8057
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,979 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296551#Comment_118296551

    Did they commit federal offenses? Jurisdiction matters - local protests are a matter for the states to adjudicate.



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    #8058
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,483 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296499#Comment_118296499

    So you disagree with Trumps depiction of them as a thugs, terrorists and anarchists? If you recall he was calling out governors for not stamping out the portestors. What of course you wanted him to do was simply accept that some of them get a bit overzealous but mainly they are not a problem!



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    #8059
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296512#Comment_118296512

    Probably a couple dozen. Take a look at the outcome of many that were prosecuted in the link. The vast majority were found "Not Guilty – all charges." Sure looks like the overwhelming arrests were a waste of government time and simply a witch-hunt orchestrated against Trump supporters who merely felt they had the right to go into the "People's House" and have their voices heard.

    Guilty of "Parading in a Capitol Building" seems to the the most serious of offenses for those found guilty. Laughable, wouldn't you say?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_charges_in_the_2021_United_States_Capitol_attack

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #8060
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296573#Comment_118296573

    I'll say it again... those that caused destruction of property and engaged in violence should be prosecuted!!!!! Yes, I would say those that were at ALL the protests including the one on Jan 6, that were simply not where they should have been and did not participate in violence or destruction of property, should not be prosecuted.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #8061
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,867 ✭✭✭Christy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296551#Comment_118296551

    This is the Trump thread so in this case "But Antifa" is not a good look. i am talking about Trump because this is the Trump thread. Yes any "overzealous" protestors from BLM riots should be prosecuted however the crimes are very much not the same. One is a protest turning into a riot and the other is attempting to overturn democratic results using violence.


    Edit: There is also no but Trump. You referred to the Jan 6 violence as some protestors as being overzealous. Now you are annoyed I have referred to Jan 6.



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    #8062
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296754#Comment_118296754

    The vast majority of protestors on Jan 6 were not attempting to overturn the election results. They only wanted their voices heard by their 'representatives" in government. Suggesting otherwise is quite silly.


    I am not annoyed by your referring to Jan 6. I'm annoyed at the blatant hypocrisy of most here because it's Trump.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #8063
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭briany


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296691#Comment_118296691

    They had no business whatsoever entering the Capitol. Not a single one of them. If they want to protest, do as the others did on the day and leave it outside.



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    #8064
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,483 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296859#Comment_118296859

    Voices heard about what? What exactly did they want to talk to their reps about? They had their voices heard at the ballot box, and lost. But since they didn't accept that they wanted even more time to discuss it?

    And what did they expect to gain from their voices being heard? Wasn't going to change the outcome.

    They didn't want their voices heard, they wanted to get their own way. They had been convinced by Trump that the election was stolen. If ones accepts that that is what they believe, then it really isn't unreasonable that they would won't the fraud stopped and the real winner, ie Trump, declared.

    Isn't that what was really going on? Trump had told them that the election had been stolen, that indeed their voice had been silenced. So they went to the capital to correct the injustice.

    The other alternative is they didn't believe the election was stolen, in which case what exactly did they want to voice to their their reps?



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    #8065
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,067 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296339#Comment_118296339

    A couple of months back they were claiming that the person shot was a "young girl", so it is a bit of progress in that they have very slightly turned down the scale of irrelevance.



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    #8066
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296935#Comment_118296935

    Trump, in his speech told them to go to the Capital to “peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” From all accounts they wanted their Representatives to hear them that they though certifying the election was premature at this point because of all the problems and suspect behavior dealing with the election.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #8067
    Fathom
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,017 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295705#Comment_118295705

    The Donald Trump rally inspired mob smashed their way into the Capitol. It's vid documented on the web. And the web is forever. No matter what armchair spin someone tries to make to diminish this American constitutional crisis of January 6, 2021. I am reminded of a cat in a litter box taking a poop, then trying to cover it up with sand after. It still stinks, as all these cover-up attempts do.

    At the mob break-in front lines it was horrific what was done to many injured police officers. Many hospitalized. One was killed. Many police quit after, suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Property was destroyed, as the mob broke down barriers, smashed windows, and crashed through doors. Those immediately behind the mob's front lines were not any more innocent than the driver of a bank robbery getaway car. They were accessories to the crimes being committed. They were guilty of trespassing, too. They shouted encouragement to the mob front lines. Many carried Trump flags, waving them just like the flag standard bearers in old time infantry war to encourage the violent mob front lines. The police could have handled the mob front lines, but for the great mob size behind the front lines, pushing and shoving, completely overwhelming the smaller police numbers.

    Trump and his Republican supporters claim to be a party of law and order. Claim to be in support of police. Really? Don't attempt to insult our intelligence by this pure and unadulterated (obscenity). The great number of vids that day fly in the face of those lies. Some vids on the web were taken and posted by Trump mob members, bragging about their contribution that day.

    "What does the future hold for Donald Trump?" More of the above if elected 2024. More Trump cats in litter boxes taking a poop. Then attempting to cover it up.

    Post edited by Fathom on


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    #8068
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297220#Comment_118297220

    Yes, some did smash their way in and should be prosecuted for the violence. And yes, the web is forever. You also saw the videos and pictures of security and lawmakers holding the doors open for the protesters to come on in, right? You wouldn't be selective in your outrage, would you?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #8069
    Fathom
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,017 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297373#Comment_118297373

    Cherry pick your way through the cat sand litter box (metaphor). Some of the sand may not have been pooped or peed on, yet. Re-elect Trump in 2024. The same Trump box will be filled then. The stink will be worse than it is today. No matter how the Trump cats try to cover it up.



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    #8070
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297465#Comment_118297465

    I plan on voting for DeSantis in 2024, regardless if Trump runs or not. But I support his decision to run if he wants to. He was, and would be, 50 times better than the boob who sits in the Oval Office, today.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #8071
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭briany


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297106#Comment_118297106

    Since Trump told them to go peacefully, then I take it you expect that Trump would not have accepted a continuation of his presidency had it been achieved by the minority of protestors who entered the Capitol on Jan 6th with the intention of overturning the original result by force.



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