What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

Quin_Dub · 08-12-2021 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288369#Comment_118288369

This infatuation with guns is something I will never understand.

Not so much the owning of the gun - I at least can understand (even if I don't agree for the most part) the desire or even necessity to own a gun , but stuff like this glorifying the guns and using kids to help is just beyond comprehension for me.

It's infantile and pathetic , it really is.

notobtuse · 08-12-2021 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287173#Comment_118287173

Why does it not surprise me you somehow think Manifort is in prison for being a Russian spy rather than tax evasion.

Leroy42 · 08-12-2021 2:29pm

I don't think he is a Russian spy, or is in prison for being one, but just as you constantly claim that you have answered all questions before I am not going to rehash all the arguments that have been provided for you, and all other Trump supporters, many times on here. That was after repeated denials that Manifort had ever done anything wrong, a claim that the evil MSM were simply out to get him, that justice would prevail yadda yadda.

What Manifort clearly shows is A) Trump will lie, B) Trump has plenty of dodgy friends C) Trump had people around him that were compromised. We also know that Trump brought in his own DoJ head to cut off the investigation, released a false summary of the investigation, refused to take part in the investigation, attempted to besmirch those undertaking the investigation.

Ukraine should have been the final name in the coffin for your support, but as usual everything is glossed over or waved away, and some made up conspriracy about Deepstate or similar is made to try to ignore the blatantly obvious. I mean, Trump said himself that he would gladly accept foreign help to win an election

notobtuse · 08-12-2021 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287294#Comment_118287294

It's the same here. Yeah, double standards are a drag. Don't you know I have to say things like 'IMO,', 'I believe,' 'I think,' 'apparently,' 'seemingly' et al, otherwise I get a warning for presenting opinion as fact? It's laborious being on the Most Wanted List and not just being one of the gang... allowed to say anything that comes to mind. But hey, it keeps me out of jail.

notobtuse · 08-12-2021 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287819#Comment_118287819

Republicans should learn from the Democrats that in order to get their agenda though they need to take a win at any cost attitude, and the hell with anything and everything else. In US politics for the last two decades it seems good guys finish last. Just look at the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax nonsense, that democrats knew from the start was total bullcrap and even invented by themselves, pushed for 4+ years and used as the basis for what appears to a soft coup against Trump and impeachment. Would you really fault the GOP if they begin to play by the Democrat's rules?

Leroy42 · 08-12-2021 3:27pm

Yeah, you are a real bad ass alright!!! Jebus wept. You haven't any logical arguments. Even when you try to make a legitimate point it falls apart as it is clear that that you only hold others to that particular standard. Like all the previous Trump supporters that have come and gone on this thread, resorted to the fall back of 'everyone is against me, it all biased against me'. Exactly the same as Trump.

No evidence of election fraud, no evidence of deep state, no evidence of closed media. Trump was in power for 4 years, and yet according to you, sat by whilst the democracy he claims to love and cherish was corrupted. And what has he done about it?

Has he stood on a platform of electoral reform? Had he initiated cross party working groups to propose a better, more equal, more secure voting process for the future? Has he traveled across the country to argue about the need to reform the electoral college, to bring voting systems in line with 21st technology like absentism voting?

No, he is simply crying that he was robbed, that he wants the rules changed to suit him? That it isn't fair what happened to him.

duploelabs · 08-12-2021 3:32pm

There was proven influence of Russian in the election of both '16 and '20, do you dispute the finding of the intelligence agency reports @notobtuse and if so, please show us your contradictory evidence

robinph · 08-12-2021 3:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290597#Comment_118290597

Russian influence on the elections was not a hoax. You are just deliberately misunderstanding the situation and what it was that was actually involved.

Patrick2010 · 08-12-2021 4:07pm

Anyone see the C4 documentary on Qanon last night?. Scary to see how far down the rabbit hole so many Americans are. Michael Flynn and Roger Stone are 2 dangerous guys. Flynn when challenged on Qanon just kept asking if the presenter supported paedophiles.

On the January 6th commission they've had one public meeting all year. Steve Bannon was charged with contempt but managed to put off any trial for 7 months. Mark Meadows has told them to f off off, https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/07/mark-meadows-withdraws-cooperation-capitol-attack-investigation. They've avoided going after the man who sent the mob to the Capitol because they seem to be so afraid of Trump.

Realistically nothing will happen and all the people they want to charge will just drag out the process as long as they can until the mid terms or everyone just realises the GOP will veto the whole thing.

notobtuse · 08-12-2021 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290109#Comment_118290109

I never said Manifort never did anything wrong. It's you and those like you that keep insinuating Manifort's prior discovered crimes (which Trump was most probably unaware of) had anything to do with the unscrupulous spying that was performed by the FBI, using deception for the FISA warrant on the Trump campaign, and therefore justifying it.

notobtuse · 08-12-2021 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290822#Comment_118290822

There has been Russian influence on elections for decades, and it is never aimed at only one party. Should the FBI have meticulously investigated Hillary Clinton's campaign and everyone involved with it in addition to Trump's, and even Joe Biden's, because we all know there is Russian influence involved?

ohnonotgmail · 08-12-2021 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290969#Comment_118290969

how do you know this if it hasn't been investigated?

Quin_Dub · 08-12-2021 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290969#Comment_118290969

And did those campaigns obstruct justice at any stage?

Despite all the "Russia Hoax" rhetoric , the ONLY reason Trump wasn't prosecuted was because he was President.

He even admitted to it again over the week-end in an Interview with Mark Levin on Fox where he clearly stated that he fired Comey to protect himself from investigation and prosecution, replete with his usual tripe about how "many people are saying"

“If I didn’t fire Comey, they were looking to take down the president of the United States, Trump said after griping about the Deep State. “Some people said ‘he made a mistake when he fired Comey.’ Now those same people say it’s one of the most incredible, instinctual moves they’ve ever seen. … I don’t think I could have survived if I didn’t fire him. It was like a hornet’s nest.”

Whether he was guilty or innocent of the crimes being investigated , that is textbook obstruction of justice and abuse of power.

robinph · 08-12-2021 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290969#Comment_118290969

Wasn't there statements from the FBI about Clinton just before the 2016 election, and Trump had 4 years to launch all the investigations he wanted. Did they turn anything up?

The seperate one into Russia and the Trump campaign did turn up results.

notobtuse · 08-12-2021 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289883#Comment_118289883

What... do you think American's walk around touting guns like it's the old wild west? Yeah, the mainstream media likes glorify those rare occurrences when they see them in order to make you think that is the case... it sells newspapers, as the old saying goes. Once in the last 5 years I saw one guy in a home improvement center with a holstered pistol on his belt. And in my state open carry is allowed. I think you've said you have been to America. How many Americans have you seen walking around inn public openly carrying guns? Come on... You're better than that!

It's a Right here in America, that is not abused by I'd wager 99.99% of the population... and one Trump supports, as does the majority of Americans.

everlast75 · 08-12-2021 4:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291022#Comment_118291022

Investigation in trump finds assistance from russia which trump welcomed and benefited from - "RUSSIAN HOAX"

No screed of proof whatsoever that anything similar was done by Clinton - "I'M SURE RUSSIA HELPED HER"

Ffs - utter nonsense.

Quin_Dub · 08-12-2021 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291061#Comment_118291061

Of course not - I'm talking specifically about these kinds of Social Media posts and particularly these ones from GOP Politicians.

I've spent a significant amount of time in Texas over the last 25 years and personally know dozens of gun owners (I've even gone target shooting with them several times) and all are responsible owners etc.

In terms of "open carry" , In that time , I've only ever seen one person carrying a weapon in public - Frankly , he looked ridiculous with a large pistol in a holster tucked into the side of his (very short) shorts while he collected take-out steak and fries at an upscale suburban Restaurant.

The point I'm making is about this objectification of guns by the GOP and others on the right.

This week you have had Boebert and Massie with their "Family with Weapons" Christmas cards and there have been many other to do similar things in previous years.

You also have various GOP candidates using guns in campaign ads as they tell potential voters how they plan to "take out" various policies/people etc. if they get elected.

Like I said , I can totally understand the arguments for gun ownership in a lot of circumstances - certainly if living in rural areas, there are lots of things big enough to serious injure you or worse, so totally get that. I can also understand (but not agree with) the whole "home defense" viewpoint.

But what I find utterly bizarre is this specific kind of behaviour - It's not certainly main-stream activity but does seem to be "acceptable" to the target audience.

TheIrishGrover · 08-12-2021 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291061#Comment_118291061

Rare..... in 2019 38,355 gun related deaths.....

Twice the population of the town I grew up in. In one year alone.

notobtuse · 08-12-2021 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291022#Comment_118291022

That was a very narrow investigation, primarily regarding her private email containing classified government emails to another private email account of her assistant, Huma Abedin. And the FBI allowed her to delete as many emails as she wanted to ahead of time. Also, the FBI allowed her to use her own people to investigate her bathroom server. Can you imagine if Trump in the investigation said. Yeah, FBI I'll give you my emails AFTER I've had time to delete anything I wanted. And if you want to investigate my campaign server, you MUST use the company I pick to do the the inquiry. The FBI investigation into Hillary Clinton was a farce as far as I'm concerned. Plus the FBI still found Classified and Top Secret emails on private email accounts... against the law, and nothing was done to her. So spare me the FBI investigated Clinton... it was laughable.

Black Swan · 08-12-2021 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286244#Comment_118286244

Indeed. Population parameters, sample size, confidence interval, significance level, sampling method, conceptual model, operational definitions, limitations, and recommendations for future research would be useful. They should be available sometime in a scholarly peer reviewed journal, as publish or perish is the rule in academia.

notobtuse · 08-12-2021 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291169#Comment_118291169

Sorry, I'd like to respond, but I'm not allowed to comment unless it's Trump related.

ohnonotgmail · 08-12-2021 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291364#Comment_118291364

you were quite happy to post about guns an hour ago. strange that.

TheIrishGrover · 08-12-2021 5:41pm

Pointless.

Black Swan · 08-12-2021 7:41pm

Personally and anecdotally, I am glad that we occasionally have a POV post that exemplifies Trumpism from across the pond. Derived from obvious talking points promulgated by American Republican politically far right news media sources like Fox & Friends, Breitbart News, and from Trump’s mouth, or Trump’s failed attempts to circumvent his Twitter 6 January congressional insurrection ban.

We currently have a thread in our Philosophy forum that discusses Orwellian 1984 doublethink. Many examples can be had from past (and future 2024) Trumpism POVs like the continuous fake news label by Trump’s followers, that would be useful also in our Philosophy forum Doublethink thread. Fake news being applied to anything that conflicts with the Republican talking points, or Trump’s Big Lie conspiracy theory 2024 presidential election platform.

Such examples of doublethink used by Trump followers, as well as American Republican far right posters, allow us to examine anecdotally their thinking, in contrast to ours. Especially when they claim election frauds rejected by their own Republican US Attorney General William Barr, rejected by over 60 court adjudications, and rejected by the recent Arizona Republican paid Cyber Ninjas election audit.

Such far right posts, ironically using the word right, a doublethink expression in itself, exemplifies an alternative universe to the one we think we live in. Reminds me of Trump’s Kellyanne Conway “alternative facts” expression, when she substituted pseudo evidence to replace evidence that rejected Trump’s positions.

notobtuse · 08-12-2021 8:27pm

Thanks I think, Black Swan. But you need to be corrected as you assume too much and quite incorrectly for that matter. I don't watch Fox News (except on election days, and then I keep switching between FNC and MSNBC), or Breitbart News, or even listen to Trump. I get the vast majority of my news about Trump and the Right from Realclearpolitics.com, allsides.com, 2 conservative news entities, and 2 liberal news entities. I make my decisions and opinions after balancing out what I read from both sides and I enjoy reading how both sides report so differently on current affairs. I dunno... maybe I'm just overeducated and too in tune with all that is going on politically.

An aside... I've recently watched the movies Children of Men, and Snowpiercer. Excellent representations of Orwellian societies. Here is a question for your group. Liberal run urban cities are about the closest thing to Orwellian structure there is here, yet they are almost all hellholes for all but the affluent and about as far from Utopia as you can get here. Why is that?

Fathom · 08-12-2021 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290060#Comment_118290060

Nothing unusual here. There have been many historical precedents in America under both Democrat and Republican administrations. Some infamous. Crime boss Al Capone was too clever to be convicted of murder by the US Justice Department, or other mob-based serious crimes. On October 18, 1931 he had been tried and convicted of tax evasion. Sentenced to eleven years in federal prison, fined $50,000 and charged $7,692 for court costs, in addition to $215,000 plus interest due on back taxes. His 6 month contempt of court sentence was served concurrently. Several of former President Donald Trump's inner circle have been charged, some convicted, of contempt of court and/or tax evasion. Many of their names already mentioned in this thread. They were clever too, in regards to a lot they were doing, but not clever enough to avoid being charged for some of the crimes that were alleged and/or did commit.

salmocab · 08-12-2021 8:54pm

I’m over educated and too in tune. There you have it I know better than you, no wonder he’s stuck down Trumps rabbit hole.

notobtuse · 08-12-2021 8:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292340#Comment_118292340

Amazing... so you support going after Trump so you can get as many of his allies as possible and lock them up for anything that surfaces from their past, or make things up to get them like in Flynn's case and Stone's. Government agencies pick targets they don't like, throw darts, and see what sticks? Man, you would have loved 1930's Germany.

Fathom · 08-12-2021 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292360#Comment_118292360

Do you believe that US presidents are above the law? That they should not be investigated, along with those that advise them and implement their policies? That presidents should be allowed to use executive privilege to hide their behaviors in office, or to attempt to cover them up to avoid prosecution? Remember Watergate? Once again. Nothing unusual here. Typical investigative and criminal prosecution procedures (under both Democrat and Republican administrations), applied to clever defendants. Not hidden, either. Made public by Watergate congressional hearings. Like the typical investigative procedures used against clever defendants (Al Capone), they started with investigating, charging, and prosecuting his lower level advisors (Capone's accountant, etc), building evidence as they climbed up the chain of command toward the boss.

Do you believe that the Watergate Republican presidential campaign paid burglars should have been allowed to break-into the Watergate building Democrat headquarters June 17, 1972 to obtain presidential election plans? Do you believe that the 69 people indicted and 48 people convicted, many of them top Republican President Richard Nixon administration officials, should have been allowed to walk free? Do you believe that President Nixon should not have resigned before the investigation climbed up the ladder to him, while congress was making plans for his impeachment? Or if not successfully impeached, that Nixon should give presidential pardons to the convicted Watergate criminals? Or do you believe that Vice President Ford, who became President in exchange for Nixon resigning, should have pardoned Nixon for all crimes that he may have committed?

What was the parking garage whistleblower nicknamed? Deep Throat? What did he say to the reporters investigating Watergate, and having difficulty trying to find any links between Watergate and Nixon during the executive privilege cover-up? "Follow the money?" Would this include the tax returns?

Does anyone see similarities between yesteryear's Capone and Nixon investigative procedures with those applied to the aids, advisors, and associates of Donald Trump?

Tony EH · 08-12-2021 11:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292360#Comment_118292360

I think it's you who'd be more at home in 1930's Germany. 😉

The only thing that would change is the name of the fuhrer you'd worship.

What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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