Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

you could bet your life on it !

there is something insidious about the moral high ground many in irish society have adopted - slowly but surely over time demanding compliance under penalty for refusal.

its' not about a virus with a really low death rate (nearly exclusively in elderly people) which they have been vaccinated for.

It's a social/political revenge on people who don't (for whatever reason) follow the accepted trends.

This is the issue.

If you have socialised health care you can't ban people for ANY reason. Its a social contract that we agree to that says "despite your life choices, you will be helped no matter what, because its the right thing to do"

Ironically those in favour in it want to ban people because of their choice.

Fine. Lets ban any health care for people who make any choice that puts them in a bad position.

Fat and need a new heart? No you shouldn't get one tubby

Had sex willingly and got pregnant? tough ****, pay for your own pregnancy care

Smoked 20 a day for 30 years? No cancer treatment for you, you selfish fool..

This is the road they want to open up?

Now who in ICU currently fits into each of the above categories.

Think you will find as the OP posted, that information isn't available

We don't have a clear break down of why some people are vaccinated for each of their own reasons. Whether stupidity (in your opinion) or otherwise.

Posting the definitions of what makes someone vaccinatable or not doesn't tell us anything.

They are just guidelines.

There are no facts beyond the facts that there are guidelines.

Post numbers in ICU who fall into each of the above

How many are taken up by obese people?

Thats your problem, you only care about vaccine status for who you want to be discriminated against.

The ICU beds are not taken up by unvaccinated 20 year olds.

So why are you drawing the line at vaccination status?

Why not age? Ban only those over 50 who aren't vaccinated would be at least a more accurate assessment of those at risk to need ICU.

What the logical argument for banning a 20 year old fit man who isn't ever going to end up in ICU?

I know that site (among others) intimately - an odd assertion to make.

I remember such times on that site you reference - like the time in oct when they reported (and was quoted by all leaders and Nphet) the unvaccinated were clogging the hospitals and their only report ran from April despite ireland only going 50% fully vaccinated on July 21. I remember that.

That's sh1te stats or misinformation - take your pick.

The UK and CDC stats are much more informative.

RED HERRING FALLACY!

Your argument is that unvaccinated people are more likely to end up in ICU. You are arguing they are at risk FROM the virus themselves. Nothing to do with YOU because you are vaccinated and protected.

So stick to the one topic at a time. We are talking about personal risk of ending up in ICU which is what you are using to argue for the passes.

You are claiming that unvaccinated are more at risk of ending up in ICU. That isn't about them infecting others so you can't say obesity isn't infectious because that isn't the point you are making by quoting how many unvaccinated are in ICU. It is a logical fallacy and a massive red herring.

Now that I have pointed out your blatant fallacy, please explain why a healthy unvaccinated person who won't end up in ICU EVER from covid, is somehow responsible for ICU capacity?

You are banning people one 1 health metric, but allowing others who while vaccinated are at more risk than the healthy young man can go about their lives.

Explain your logic

Unvaccinated children are allowed indoor dining correct?

Why is that? Because they aren't the ones ending up in ICU right?

So why is an 18 year old unvaccinated person who is also not going to end up in ICU treated differently to a 10 year old in a resturant.

Both are not at risk of taking up ICU capacity.

Keep repeating the 50% but you can't explain why we should ban all unvaccinated people (bar children) even though the median age is 50+

being recovered gets you a time limited pass.

But i'd be angry anyway with this sh1te was carrying on pass or not.

On a personal level I'm grand, the loss of freedoms and descent into rule by dictak from unelected civil servants and the government who follow their lead is what worries and angers me more.

If people can't see we don't live in a free society anymore if our freedoms are granted at the pleasure of the "powers that be" on the premise we do what they say - then we are lost. But the Irish people don't , the old bread & circus is replaced with a desire for pints and dining out.

In 1984 winston went down the proles living quarters and found just that - it's so apt for Ireland.

For all his sh1te talk , I do admire the British and Boris attitude of carrying on and living with covid.

Then your argument is for age certs instead of vaccine certs, you need to explain what the consequences of your profound wisdom of knowing this data is.

8% taking 50% of capacity is the reason for COVID passes. You now need to negate that and explain another system, if you want to base it on age, convince people of it.

Then why did donnelly mention immuno as a stat? he said 82%

I wish I knew why the stats weren't more exact.

It's easy to make blanket statement , it's easier to hide the exact truth , incompetance. who knows?

The OP was insinuating that a lot of those in ICU may have been immunocompromised. I was pointing out that that immunocompromised doesnt mean they cant get the vaccine. Its basic stuff but he had a notion in his head and wanted to use it to confirm his own biases.

Maybe the ESRI should do updated research as to why people dont get vaccines. Or cant. But the numbers who cant get vaccines after reactions is low. From HPRA website on vaccine reactions, there were only 6 cases of myocarditis in Ireland after covid vaccines.

COVID-19 Vaccines, Overview of National Reporting Experience

Publication date: 12 August 2021 (Update #10)

"For Comirnaty® or Spikevax®, as of 03 August, the HPRA has received a total of 24 reports, that describe suspected side effects of myocarditis (six reports)"

As regards breakdown of ICU cases, those reports are available.

What about the vaccinated nurses who were in the clubs for the last 6 weeks mixing and spreading covid. As clearly shown by our massive increase numbers after the reopening (to the vaccinated only). The passes didn't work so they are now closing down clubs again. But she can still go into work. Ban nurses from hospitality? Sounds good doesn't it. They are the front line workers...and so are you right? You shouldn't be allowed indoors as you are then placing your patients at even greater risk. And not only that Dazzler, you are the traveling pharmacist. Much more chance of you spreading covid to the vulnerable than and 18 year old unvaccinated lad who works in a chipper and only hangs around with his friends.

So given that passes didn't work for night clubs or bars and we now have to restrict them again...please explain to me how the covid pass works to stop the spread?

Because you have given up on the pass stopping the unvaccinated ending up in ICU (because most of them wont)