Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

Fitz II · 07-12-2021 2:43pm

Nautillus never looks that good in the metal. The green was a disappointment to its owners, the blue looks grey.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118284051#Comment_118284051

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE

njburke · 07-12-2021 11:29pm

Bit of a flurry there, I didn't expect it to end with the Godman Osho.

To add to above one of the reasons I think the vintage market has softened is the lack of competent watchmakers to service them.

Anyway I'm doing a bit of web browsing on the Jaeger LeCoultre Master Quartz. I find this on the Hodinkee site

"The caliber 352 features a quickset date wheel and a 32,768 Hz amplitude."

So not only is there a lot of video from folks who don't know a whole lot about watches, some of them are writing it down.

Wibbs · 07-12-2021 11:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287633#Comment_118287633

Do NOT get me started Nj. 😡 No really... we'll be here all week. Well I will, you'll have drifted off into the land of nod two sentences in. and... he's gone... 😁

Yep the servicing thing can be a real issue. Triply so with early quartz like the JLC. With those I always sourced a spare movement(whole watch) or two.

I've a few of those Girard Perregaux 352/3/1's Got them when you could pick em up for buttons and could actually pick them up. These days they're either rarely seen or are at dealer prices. AKA daft.

They're solid as feck movements. No jewels, instead use teflon bearings that never need lubrication. Actually a few of the ones I've gotten down the years were borked because a watchmaker oiled the bloody bearings. A clean out with pegwood and off they ran. The joke is the bits that are most likely to fail are the mechanical parts JLC developed with GP. The "quickset" date a weak part. It had some solid "lube for life" which wasn't, or later watchmakers fecked it. The leccy bits are very strong. It's got the finest(and priciest) stepping motor ever fitted to a quartz movement in my humble. None of this exposed coil bollocks. Second place for me would go to the Rolex Oysterquarz. Plus because GP set the frequency standard at 32,768 Hz that pretty much everyone else followed, if the quartz can goes kaput you can stick in a brand new one from ebay or wherever. They were also built in a modular more simple way so trad watchmakers in the early 70's would find them no bother to fix. The Beta 21 is a curse by comparison and the Longines UltraQuartz will induce nightmares and madness in most watchmakers. To illustrate; my one:

The JLC Master Quartz is a gorgeous watch, particularly with the blue face. Serious heft to it and real quality in case and bracelet and dials. These were the latest thing, very labour intensive(hand cut and tuned natural quartz crystal for a start), top of the range and expensive watches when they came out so got the best of materials thrown at them. The Longines above even got insurance as part of the price. Around 700 quid when something like a Rolex Sub date was 200 and a Speedy was 180. One issue with the JLC can be the dial blue they used in all watches back then. It tends to flake with moisture. But a good one is a cracker.

So when you wake up in the morning and read this... Actually don't, wait until tomorrow evening when you can sleep in peace. 😁

njburke · 08-12-2021 12:53am

It's not bedtime yet. I had a good stare at that ultra quartz, what I thought were links are the gold plated legs of through hole components. The hand soldered surface mount components are a horror. I was a design engineer on an automated optical inspection machine that inspected solder joints.

Does that ultra quartz use a quartz to pump a mechanical resonater?

Two items that are in the post to me at the moment ,the first is a second 9943-8000. Yes, I'll have twin twin quartz. I landed a working one for the cost of the OEM bracelet.

The second is a Girard Perregaux 9575 KA. The Motorola chip is not hermetically sealed in the gold plated metal case, it's a later model with 73 week code on the chip, it's a 352 calibre. As you say, it's all dry assembly, Teflon bearings.

Your Tron dial 350 is very rare, I'm glad it's in good hands. I love the semiconductor die dial, a master stroke. A quartz watch with that dial would sell very well at the big semiconductor trade shows.

I'll post pics when I get them, I've had too many watches turn into vaporware when it comes to shipping and I get a refund from the seller. A disappointment when you want the watch and not the money.

cnocbui · 08-12-2021 1:31am

How I made the Seiko lume gif.

I was OSX preview scrolling through a folder of photos I had taken and noticed there was a very close registration between a daylight and lume shot, which means I likely took them with the camera on a tripod. So that's step one - a fixed camera position. for the shots, which also helps with focusing.

The second bit is I loaded the two shots into photoshop. The registration of the watch faces wasn't exact so I selected the watch face in the dark shot and pasted it into the lit shot, creating two layers. I reduced the transparency of the pasted dark shot to 40% - so I could see the lit shot through it, and then moved that layer around to line up the lume markers in each shot. I then restored the dark layer to opaque, selected it and chose crop - which cropped the non matching parts of the larger background so what was left matched the dark layers dimensions.

I then searched the web to find out how to turn the two stacked layers into a gif. Turns out you open the animations window and select a time period to show each layer for. I think I picked 2 seconds for the lit layer and 3 for the lume layer. My first attempt to save as a gif failed because the image was way too large, so I had to shrink the dimensions and chose about 600 pixels in width. That was small enough so I then just chose the 'save for web and devices' option and selected gif as the format; gave it a name and voila.

Wibbs · 08-12-2021 8:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288079#Comment_118288079

The hand soldered surface mount components are a horror. I was a design engineer on an automated optical inspection machine that inspected solder joints.

So you'd be in a position of that giving you nightmares. 😁

Does that ultra quartz use a quartz to pump a mechanical resonater?

It's "cybernetic" and was advertised as such.

https://i.imgur.com/z6gaKgP.gif

😁The resonater, which yeah is along the lines of a tuning fork movement(and the bit that usually fails on these) drives the hands and is the slave timekeeper, with the master quartz part nudging it back to true when it deviates. With the Beta 21 movement the quartz directly drives the tuning fork stepping motor via a motorola chip in the "normal" way. The stepping motor part seems to have been an issue for the Swiss. Seiko had the one beat per second type in their first quartz(which was a barely working prototype). Their marketing tagline was "Have you ever seen a second". Then GP came out with the 350 series. Longines were in the partnership to build the Beta 21, but also had this on the go internally. It was meant to be a cheaper way to build a quartz using discrete components(from the hearing aid industry) rather than the very expensive at the time "silicon chips". The more handmade aspect meant it wasn't much cheaper at all and they were very delicate. There were no individual parts for it, the part was the movement. Few survive in working condition today. Even Longines' example has a later ticking quartz movement in it. The sweep is so smooth and the thing buzzes like a marital aid. Really loud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnH4MD0Lzqs

I rarely wear it. It's more a museum piece tbh.

Two items that are in the post to me at the moment ,the first is a second 9943-8000. Yes, I'll have twin twin quartz. I landed a working one for the cost of the OEM bracelet.

The second is a Girard Perregaux 9575 KA. The Motorola chip is not hermetically sealed in the gold plated metal case, it's a later model with 73 week code on the chip, it's a 352 calibre. As you say, it's all dry assembly, Teflon bearings.

Nice. The twin twin quartz is a rare one. The early quartz are so much harder to find these days and prices have gone up. Time was you'd have a few pages on ebay with the things.

Your Tron dial 350 is very rare, I'm glad it's in good hands. I love the semiconductor die dial, a master stroke. A quartz watch with that dial would sell very well at the big semiconductor trade shows.

Thanks NJ. I was looking for one for over five years and then got very lucky with a French ebay auction with the worst pics ever. 220 quid. At one stage the online buzz was they were only an internal marketing thing. They were in all their adverts, but clearly not many were made. I suspect because they were expensive watches and the buyers with the money to buy them wanted more traditional designs. The dials were made by Singer(later bought by Rolex), the normal GP dials were Beyeler. Of the ones that have shown up with background stories they were owned by people who worked for Motorola. Like you say they would have a fair bit of crossover with the early computing collector market. I also found in a joblot from Switzerland for 50 quid a GP movement Consul(which GP had bought out) with an IBM punchcard dial. So far that's example of one. I strongly suspect it's a prototype as it doesn't show up in any of their brochures of the time and up close looks not quite finished.

I'll post pics when I get them, I've had too many watches turn into vaporware when it comes to shipping and I get a refund from the seller. A disappointment when you want the watch and not the money.

Really? That's never happened to me. So far. Touch wood. though things have changed quite a bit since I was more actively buying.

njburke · 08-12-2021 10:36am

I'll have a look to see if I can find a description of operation of the ultraquartz. I'm guessing at how it might work, your description of the quartz as as reference nudging it back in suggests there may be a phase locked loop in use. These circuits would be common in FM radios to demodulate the audio that has deviated the radio signal.

I've had a couple of sellers tell me they've dropped the watch as they were packing it. In one case I said send it anyway, he did not. No reserve auctions, one was a very clean Seiko 7005, cushion case and lovely white linen like dial, auction closed at less than 50 euro. The other was a bellmatic.

BlackEdelweiss · 08-12-2021 11:18am

Hi, first time posting in the watches forum and its probably not worth a thread of its own.

I have taken my first foray into expensive watches and have a quick question. I just bought a Longines Hydroconqest and need to get a few links taken out to fit my wrist. Just wondering how much something like this will set me back, I'm thinking / hoping not much but having never dealt with jewellers in this way I'm not sure what to expect.

banie01 · 08-12-2021 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289025#Comment_118289025

Congrats on the watch and welcome to the world of wondering what watch you should get next 😉

Sizing the bracelet is a very straightforward job for a jeweller and should really be an as you wait job. If you bought in a Bricks and Mortar I'd expect them to size it for free. If you bought elsewhere, I really wouldn't expect to pay more than €20 and at that it would be a high price IMO.

Dependent upon where you are? We might be able to offer some advice on where to get it done. It's a job that many of us eventually start doing ourselves but always for me at least, with an air of trepidation about a screwdriver slip.

Wibbs · 08-12-2021 11:28am

The phase loop sounds familiar alright. It was a clever way of doing away with using a chip to calculate the impulses. I have an original brochure for one somewhere explaining it in English, but can I find it...

This is an ad for one from 1972 as part of the in flight magazine on Concorde.

Dependable my left one. 😂 It gives a general overview of what it apparently does. That's the coolest model of them, where the seconds hand sweeps under the indices that look like some futurist stonehenge. Longines took risks with tolerances on their seconds hands. My Ultronic seconds hand misses the indices by barely a blonde one.

Here's a page from a Swiss industry magazine from the late 60's showing an early working version(they patented it in 1968, two years before Seiko and the Swiss Beta), in French though:

It shows just how much cash and resources a company like Longines had back then. Omega were the same. And how willing they were to embrace and develop the new tech. Companies like Patek and AP were very small fry by comparison. Some of the smaller houses like to market the fact they never offered a quartz. They don't market the fact they quite simply couldn't afford to. AP were on the ropes when they brought out the Royal Oak. That was their Hail Mary.

Like I have noted before it wasn't a "Quartz crisis" that did the Swiss in, it was a "Digital crisis". The Swiss were well ahead on and heavily invested in analogue quartz tech and were selling well, but never saw the digitals taking over to the extent they did. They were initially an American enterprise, but when the Japanese and later China/Hong Kong took over the Swiss had pretty much nada to offer, or what they had was two years behind the Far East. Good night Irene. Then of course they marketed the mechanical revival on the back of the huge war chest they'd built up from selling cheap plastic and quartz fashion (S)watches.

BlackEdelweiss · 08-12-2021 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289062#Comment_118289062

Thanks, yes I can imagine is as a bit of an addictive hobby. Choosing my first watch was hard enough but was limited by budget so it made my choice a bit easier. I wanted something to wear everyday and do a bit of sea swimming so this sounded like a decent option. I was wearing a Victorinox Maverick which I love but the loop on the strap broke and was going to cost about €80 to replace. Great excuse to spend over a grand on a new watch! The wife is guessing at the price and is thinking around the €650 mark so I'm not doing anything to change her mind.

I am in Galway City and was thinking of somewhere like Hartman & Sons as they also sell Longines.

banie01 · 08-12-2021 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289154#Comment_118289154

Hartmann are where I'd recommend up that way TBH, a Longines dealer may, may do it for you gratis but as I said should be cheap enough. Was it the keeper that went on the Maverick? I think they are a 22mm lug width? I have a couple of straps in that size that see zero use that would suit it. Drop me a PM with your address and I'll drop them in the post to you. Its far too nice a watch to not wear because of a strap issue ;)

unkel · 08-12-2021 12:08pm

Welcome to our dangerous hobby, BlackEdelweiss 😁

FWIW I feel your Longines Hydroconquest as your first proper Swiss watch is an excellent choice. Longines have a great heritage and they punch above their weight when it comes to quality and class of their watches. I have fond memories of my GMT Conquest

cnocbui · 08-12-2021 12:28pm

Should have stayed in NZ, they'd have you up to scratch by now and you'd even be up for making a new link out of No. 8 fence wire. 😆

BlackEdelweiss · 08-12-2021 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289313#Comment_118289313

That's beautiful. I'm going to have to practice my watch photography, I cant get the colour to show in any that I have taken so far.

banie01 · 08-12-2021 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290673#Comment_118290673

If it's beautiful? There is no way in hell Unkel took the photo 🤣🤣

unkel · 08-12-2021 4:09pm

Haha, I was going to post something very similar 😂

Wibbs · 08-12-2021 4:12pm

Nah, I'm the one with the Potato cam. 😁

Ian OB · 08-12-2021 8:40pm

Looks like the price of upmarket watches won't be coming down anytime soon

https://www.expatica.com/fr/uncategorized/swiss-watchmaker-family-taken-hostage-in-brazen-gold-heist-309683/

njburke · 08-12-2021 8:52pm

Unkel doesn't hold on to the watches long enough to get a good photo. Its like portraiture, the artist has to take the time to get to know his subject.

unkel · 08-12-2021 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292343#Comment_118292343

I'll have you know I have my main watch coming up a year just before Christmas!

njburke · 08-12-2021 10:22pm

A year is the first flush of young love. If you were to take the one watch one year challenge would it be that watch, I'm guessing the sea dweller.

I have a watch here I bought last year that I have not yet worn. I have enjoyed it immensely though, albeit in a slightly nerdy/WIS way. We're flirting.

unkel · 08-12-2021 11:15pm

If I bought a watch and I didn't wear it the day I got it, it would be up for sale again that evening. Flirting me hole 🤣

njburke · 08-12-2021 11:54pm

It's a Grand Seiko sbgv225, it's minty, but has two spare half links . So I'm two full links shy of wearing it.I just got it's battery replaced, I'll get round to wearing it. It's kinda become a safe queen in part due to Covid, it's a watch i'ld wear dressed up/ special occasion, surely we all have one of them. And perhaps more importantly my youngest son likes it, so I kind of see it as his. I have three sons and three relatively good watches that should be serviceable over the next 25 years or so. I'm basing that on the 45 year old watches I own that are still soldiering.

It's the one watch I have that's pristine, I got it in a private sale from japan. The doxa I have I got from a guy in the UK, who flipped it after a month or two but not before he scratched the bracelet sizing it.

With scuba gear there's a term we used to use called 'kit fondle', which reminds me I have a lovely diving wing still in it's box, I didn't get the cold water diving opportunities this year either to warrant switching my old wing out.

Cyrus · 09-12-2021 11:10am

Anyone for some seized goods?

I presume they get these checked before selling?

https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/timed-auction/listings?culture=en-GB&salecode=DO106&page=6&pagesize=10&sortby=reference_asc

Cyclingtourist · 09-12-2021 11:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118294534#Comment_118294534

Had a look at what's on offer and there's criminal levels of bad taste there.

893bet · 09-12-2021 11:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118294534#Comment_118294534

I wouldn’t trust or make any assumptions on anything from Auction.

njburke · 09-12-2021 4:58pm

I looked at the auction, there's a Rolex 67193 guiding 4550, and a puffy jacket for 1400. They do not warrant them as original, so very much buyer beware. Gas though if you paid full price for fake from the state, Joe Duffy time.

On the not wearing a watch, here's a guy talking watches, reckons a higher end GS might not be a good buy for that reason, his is way up the scale from my entry level piece.

https://youtu.be/JNP2nPfas6I

893bet · 09-12-2021 8:17pm

I am really looking forward to Xmas! Feeling burned out!

Edit-sorry wibbs, wrong thread

IrishPlayer · 09-12-2021 9:48pm

As what's starting to become a bit of a regular thing nowadays , I'll start off by apologizing for not being more active on here😟 Working in retail , along with other things going on at the moment, I just haven't been making time to keep up on the forums.

But (unfortunately for my wallet😁) I still make time to check the auctions!

This is on it's way from the UK😁

Another Bell! This one been a very special model, one I've been hunting in quite a while now. I'll post more when it arrives. In short, it's a 4006-7019 from October 1967 but what makes it special is the jewel count.

As shown on the dial, 21 Jewels. Bells started out with 27 Jewels, I believe like 5 if them just for show, not actually functional as it was a trend back then to have the highest Jewel count possible.

They eventually went down to 17 Jewels due to a tax, the 17 J models actually lost some important jewels in the process. But for a very brief period, they made a 21 Jewel model, the first was the 7019 in October 1967 and the other being the 7029 around March/April 1968.

I've come across 5 7029s alone this year, but in all the time, haven't seen a 7019. Richard Askham did a blog post which goes into more detail [Link]

Also have started to post on Instagram, here is my account if anyone is interested [Link]. Seems to be the "go to" place nowadays, personally I prefer the forums as it allows for more documentation that can be helpful in the future for research. Nevertheless, have already come across some big Seiko collectors on there with some rare models so it will be my new hunting ground!

Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

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