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The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    RTE will have been told to stop reporting on it as they are told how to report the scheme. Nearly every time it was mentioned yesterday by rte the 420,000 cap was mentioned and no word of price per sq/ft.

    I would also bet Charlie has been told he will be looked after with a nice little position after this is over as his political career in Donegal is finished. Maybe a zapone position.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband


    Ok, I'll bite,

    Your house stands you €100k, is worth € 80k based on your assessment of sale price of similar dwelling.

    Lets assume that there is still the €90k outstanding on the Mortgage that you took out, ie you have not paid anything off it.

    You state the rebuild grant caps you at € 167k, so € 67k more than your actual outlay ever was.

    You state the rebuild cost according to SCSI to be € 173k or €180k your own figure

    So there is a shortfall of €6k to € 13k ?

    Not a dissimilar figure that will conceivably be levied on a new build to fund the rebuild of your house, I'm honestly struggling to see how you should be shielded from that, yes its not you fault, but its not my fault either, yet you want a completely free get out whilst don't care that the likes of me will have to shoulder the increased cost?



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband


    How does the tax payer paying 100% or even ten times that of the rebuild cost punish the block maker?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭SBourgaize


    Actually the shortfall is closer to 46k to 53k, as demolition and removal costs are not included.


    I paid 100k, while a rebuild is 180k, yes. That is generally what happens to new builds in an area that has a massive crash in house prices.


    I may have paid less than the cost to rebuild, but I cannot tell the builders "well I paid 100k, so I'm not paying any more than that to rebuild".



  • Administrators Posts: 54,285 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The government are putting limits and scales in because nobody, other than the campaign itself and some noisy people on twitter want to see them giving blank cheques and 100% redress.

    This is the uncomfortable truth for all those involved.

    The people fronting this campaign need to read the room.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Read post no. 1 before posting in this thread again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    This isn't Donegal County Councils first rodeo, tribunal needed



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband


    So I presume you'd be happy with your 100k back and a council house to put a roof over your head.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Why would anyone be happy with less than they started with?

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭SBourgaize




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Great to come home in the evening and listen to a bit of comedy.

    Firstly our own Charlie on Highland refusing to answer straight questions but saying foundations will be tested and extra money allocated if foundation found to be bad. But clearly states on the scheme that foundation will not be included. He's surely been hung out to dry.

    And then Pat Kenny crying about tax payers money. Really Pat Kenny, how many tax payers did it take to pay his wages in Rte and he's some neck after the crying he done about someone building close to his own mansion. Pure comedy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭jj880


    Charlie is getting roasted everywhere. Hes finished in Donegal. How can a man turn against his own neighbours and county so badly? Its not just this scheme - he's shafted fisherman and farmers too. Its incredible. He must be on some promise from FF for after the next election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,147 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    So just only say what the forum wants to hear? No disenting voices from anyone?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Read through the thread from post no. 1 onwards and then come back and tell us where a different opinion or viewpoint wasnt allowed.

    You might also want to read the forum charter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    Because it’s more than they have today, and the people paying to give them that benefit aren’t at fault?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    I'm not happy that anyone has to pay for this. The people that should be are the block manufacturers, the insurance companies and the banks. That's not happening...so here we are...again. These discussions are going round in circles.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband


    He started with a house that cost him €100k, I asked if he would be happy with €100k plus a house, that's more than he started with.

    Its not really my or anyone elses fault that his €100k house will cost € 200k plus to rebuild, funny seeing as the €100k included buying the land its built on and all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    €100k + a house isnt part of the redress scheme and is pure fantasy so we can drop that line please.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband


    Getting 2.3 times what you paid is also fantasy, can we drop that please, plus the redress line as it is misleading.

    This is a grant to assist in a rebuild, not an insurance payment to reimburse you, nor a redress for a wrong.

    The man paid €100k for a house worth €100k, the man should be happy with the €100k if that is the fair value of the house, mica or no mica, if he bought it sub value due to mica even you should be telling him to f away off out of looking for over market value.

    Its also worth noting that there will have to be a substantial upmarking of the value of houses in the region for property tax, as residents are claiming properties to be worth multiples of the declared OMSP.

    So, which is it worth? what you say it'll cost or what you say it'll sell for? seeing as you won't sell at a loss it has to be the cost figure.

    This is something that I will be strongly petitioning for, as I feel it to be only fair that the LPT be levied at a value related to the allowed grant level for a minimum period of 20 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Would you be happy? Genuinely? Try to put yourself in our position. It's not easy...but try.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Good article in the Irish Times ^^^

    There's a housing and mental health crisis coming down the line...on top of the existing housing and mental health crisis.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    Do you really think its a good article? Do people really think "if this was in Dublin it would be fixed"? I don't think I've ever read an article so clearly depicting people living in a bubble.

    "why should we have to spend more and more money rebuilding our house?” says one person. Why would anyone else have to pay more and more, if the person actually living in the property doesn't want to contribute?

    What's missing from this coverage is any sense of "please, we're not presuming you don't have your own troubles, but can you help? I'm doing all I can to help myself". I'm not sure the author of this article is doing the campaign any favours.

    Taking a step back, is there any explanation of how Donegal people were apparently able to build houses up to 1980, and then apparently lost the skill? Did people do something to houses traditionally, to protect them against the wet, that people stopped doing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭dzer2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Mod: @VillageIdiot71 unless you change your signature to something that does not go against the mod instruction in post no. 1 you are not allowed any further posts in this thread.

    Post edited by muffler on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    The proof is already there. 100% redress for pyrite houses in Leinster.

    Lost the skill? Bar the issue with the blocks, there's nothing wrong with how my house was built.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Okay, maybe not the banks...even though we're still paying a mortgage on a worthless property.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    @VillageIdiot71 I've given your signature some more thought. As its clearly there to troll and to circumvent the mod instructions in the OP you are now thread banned.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,147 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven




  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband


    Would I be happy to get a guaranteed return of 100% of the purchase price of my house were it now rendered worthless bar the value of the land?

    Absolutely without a doubt I would be, I'd happily take that, clear the mortgage and use the equity leftover to move on.

    In the interest of clarity, my house is worth a fair bit more than the purchase price and has been for a long time.

    The only relevant figures are cost (being purchase price) or net realisable value & it should be the lower of the two figures, you are only in for how much you spent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband


    Definitely not the banks fault.

    Did the bank hold a gun to your head and tell you to take the mortgage out or did you make that decision yourself?

    Where has personal responsibility gone?

    If your property was not worthless would you share a profit with the bank, of course you wouldn't, they got the interest on the payments didn't they....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    You are not an honest poster. Obviously you've tried to put yourself in my position and you haven't been able to. That's fair enough. It's impossible unless you're in this shíte.

    "You are only in for what you spent." That's only one blinkered way of looking at it. I had a perfectly good house. Now I don't. I would like my perfectly good house back.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,410 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Although the banks aren't to blame, they are keeping every house affected in their books at it's original mortgage amount/value.

    So in theory they are fudging their figured. They own the properties until the mortgage is paid off, and at present the houses really only have site value until they are fixed.

    So they are involved in all this.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Yeah. You've posted what I wanted to but I've lost the will to respond to 'ahusband' a little bit.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭dzer2


    Not really,

    If you borrow from a bank to buy a car for x amount with an agreed repayment of y. When you have repayed it the bank don't care what the car is worth. It's the same with the house you bought on a mortgage. It's really hard on you when what you have spent your money on turns out to be a lemon bit it's still not the banks fault.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,975 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Just wondering about this. Do holiday home owners have the support of the protesters & lobbyists?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,975 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Ah come on... A home is a different scenario than a car. Anyway, if it was Audi or Ford and all their cars had a serious defect in them there'd be a recall. We've all seen this happen, the car goes to the garage and the fault is amended, or the part is replaced, car is valeted and returned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭dzer2


    Being honest this defect doesn't appear inside the 5 yr rule. But again the house can't be recalled. Again not all house's in Donegal have this defect. The faulty blocks as far as being proven come.from the one supplier. Until this was proven the banks had no evidence to pull a mortgage on a house for faulty blocks.

    Where I come from there are certain sand pits that the blocklayers specify the sand is got from and then the plasters have a different one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,975 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I know a house can't be recalled, that's why I called you out on the car comparison. This isn't a time for silly analogies, these are peoples homes, the biggest spend any normal person has in a lifetime leaving aside the natural emotions we have with our homes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,410 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Sorry but got to dispute this.

    For example, say I have a mortgage of 200k with a bank. The house is discovered to have mica. It is basically worthless as a property, unless it it fixed, as it will eventually crumble and fall down.

    But the bank continues to tell the Central bank that my property is worth 200k, when it isn't.

    Of course you could say as long as I keep paying my repayments on 200k, that they will get their asset fully paid for.

    But if I decide to default, they take property off me, and will continue to claim it's worth 200k, which is it simply isn't.

    That's the point I'm trying to make.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband



    Interesting, please explain your gripe in this regard?

    Is it that the bank are actually continuing to look for the balance of the money borrowed? Heaven forbid that they should do such a ghastly thing, its an absolute disgrace that they should expect or have the audacity to think you should repay the price you agreed for them to pay on your behalf, shocking.

    You should run with this, yes, 100% redress, no less, plus a debt writedown from the nasty banks.

    We all know that when a property increases in value we have to pay the bank more than borrowed, because well its worth more now and belongs to them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband


    No you didn't, you bought a defective house cheaply and now want a non defective house regardless of the cost without being willing to accept that part of the ultimate cost must sit with the benefactor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,453 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    @ahusband You can make your point without the petty sarcasm. No more please.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband


    Bringing unrelated parties such as the banks that lent the money into it is petty, calling it out for being what it is is being realistic.

    I just highlighted now patently absurd it is to blame the banks, its fairly difficult to do so without it coming over sarcastically.

    My objective was to highlight the stupidity of the argument against the banks, which I think I achieved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭jj880


    Banks are not just looking for the "balance of the money borrowed" as you put it. They charge interest to make profit and use the value of their loan book to borrow themselves.

    Many home owners have tried to borrow to make up for the costs not covered in this scheme but the banks wont even approve the loan because the defective block house is worthless and they know it. However the real valuation only applies when its the homeowner looking to borrow.

    No-one is blaming banks for defective blocks here. However it cant be denied they are profiting and inflating the value of these homes when it suits them and refusing to help the home owner in any way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭dzer2


    The banks can't afford to write down the value of your house. Even if you default the bank gets the house they will come after you for the rest of the money. It's basically nothing to do with the bank. They set their rules got the engineers reports got your credit history. They have done everything to make sure that you are a sound investment and gave you a loan on this. Even though your house is falling down they would still give you a loan for a car if your credit history is good. And you are up to date on the repayments.

    95 % of your house is up to regs, the windows are fine the carpentry is fine the plumbing fine as long as the walls don't break the pipes. The electrics are fine.

    Anyway that don't fix the problem. I know the blocks crumble when moisture gets into them, and some of the houses are basically F**Ked. But of the ones that are least effected at the moment survive, if a water proof membrane was added to the outside with another layer of insulation and then skimmed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,650 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    I'd imagine so. They've repeatedly stated, "no one left behind." I think they will be left behind though.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



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