The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

dzer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118281511#Comment_118281511

This is the thing if the blocks are going to crumble anyway why is anyone talking about outleaf replacement.

If the houses are f**Ked anyway, the best and cheapest is to knock them and rebuild. Don't bother with fixtures and fittings. Let the owners take out what they want to keep.

Has anyone yet have the foundations condemned

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118284002#Comment_118284002

Good chance the foundations could be fine, the sheer amount of concrete should make them fairly sound, dont think there were any mention of subsidence

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118281511#Comment_118281511

Can you explain why the inside leaf of a cavity wall or interior load bearing or partition block walls would be crumbling. The issue with 'mica' as I understand it, is that dampness - water - rain is what causes the material to degrade. Any interior leaf or interior wall should be essentially dry..

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286300#Comment_118286300

No-one actually knows why. It is not certain if it's dampness or the freeze thaw action of winter. But there is reports of inside walls showing damage, which shouldn't be damp or frozen...

You'll love this - it could be argued that it might not even be mica behind all this! I understand that it has not actually been definitively proven. Who's to say it is not some other mineral in the gravel.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286300#Comment_118286300

I have no idea why my interior walls are cracking. The kitchen and utility room are particularly bad. The fact that the reveals around the windows and doors have big gaps and cracks around them means that the chances are that there's water ingress into the exterior of the interior wall...if you know what I mean?

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286614#Comment_118286614

Was your cavities pumped with insulation by any chance

dzer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286614#Comment_118286614

Do you know what ties were used between the outer and inner leafs and was the damp proofing around the windows properly installed.

jj880

There is also pyrrhotite coming back in peoples tests from the UK labs which reacts to oxidation and causes all blockwork and foundations to weaken. Yet here we have a scheme and a statutory instrument SI 25 (the current scheme) designed for mica only with the government taking everything in house to the housing agency and ignoring any talk of testing foundations or testing for pyrrhotite. This is deliberate to push the cheapest fix possible. I really dont understand it myself. Its going to cost more in the long run when houses eventually need demolished anyway. Its political nonsense as usual. Kick as many demolitions (including foundations) as possible down the road 10 years and its the next governments problem.

jj880

Also a good article about the proposed "enhanced" scheme coming out in the Inish Times tomorrow.

If it appears on donegallive.ie I will post it here.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286300#Comment_118286300

Nowhere near enough cement in the blocks either,

NIMAN

It was often thought that the big freeze of 2010/11 was to blame for a lot of the Mica cracking in houses, and thats why freeze/thaw is often stated as a reason.

However, the fact that houses built in the years after the 'big freeze' are showing the same cracking would maybe point to just general moisture being an issue? (I do appreciate we have had smaller freeze/thaw times since the big one).

So if it is just moisture that is a potential cause, surely foundations would be liable to failure too, due to their location and the fact that they are surrounded by damp ground??

ahusband

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118282740#Comment_118282740

Post 2419 Niman says:

"I'm not happy that anyone has to pay for this. The people that should be are the block manufacturers, the insurance companies and the banks"

The banks are unrelated when it comes to those that are to blame, they are a stakeholder in the asset yes, but not a party that the cost of the same should automatically be landed upon as Niman suggested.

ahusband

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118281888#Comment_118281888

Depends on how you look at it, purchase price was cheap vs the rebuild cost and insurable value.

Not sure why your're getting wound up about it.

A neighbor of mine paid twice as much as me for their house, about two years after i bought mine, both the same houses, I've no issue saying I bought mine cheap in comparison.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287917#Comment_118287917

They have to be tested. What is stated in the government in their enhanced scheme is a visual assessment. If your house is bad enough visually you might actually get some testing done but no foundations. Its the first test that should be done but that would rule out the cheap outer leaf fixes the government want.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288123#Comment_118288123

How is buying your house at a low price years ago comparable to being forced to rebuild your house for a higher cost at a future date?

You had a choice when to buy. Home owners with defective blocks are being forced into a rebuild at a time when the cost is high.

This is obvious yet you persist with ridiculous comparisons.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286966#Comment_118286966

No idea to be honest.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287015#Comment_118287015

Again, I've no idea. The house was built when I bought it. I played no part in the building process and bought through an estate agent.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288058#Comment_118288058

You've wrongly attributed that post.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288123#Comment_118288123

It's all comparable. It makes no sense to make the comparison though. My house was not cheap. I'm not getting overly wound up but your OP insinuates that I bought a cheap, therefore inferior, with corners cut house.

dzer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288151#Comment_118288151

Down here there are dedicated block quarries, the concrete for foundations and general work come from a different place. Blocklayers want sand from a specific place also. I know all block laying sand in Waterford is brought a long distance. I even know a contractor in Dublin that buys his sand from Carlow

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288402#Comment_118288402

Only reason I was asking is because a neighbour beside me has very bad cracks internally as well as outside. A couple of people have suggested to him that once the water is blown through the cracks outside it wets the beads carrying the moisture to the inside blocks.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288415#Comment_118288415

In this instance, to the best of my knowledge, the aggregate for the blocks is the same aggregate used for the concrete foundations.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288428#Comment_118288428

How would I find out?

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288535#Comment_118288535

I would think that the easiest way would be to find out who built the houses and enquire from them. Sometimes you can find traces of the small polystyrene beads in around outside service boxes but unless you're fairly familiar with construction or trades I would ask a tradesman to take a look. Also any bad wide cracks inside or out should of exposed the beads, there a nightmare to gather up if start to spill out. Nothing important for you to worry about at this stage, I just thought that might explain the bad cracks inside.

SBourgaize

In your attic, specifically where the chimney meets the wall is a great place to spot them too. We can see ours there where some concrete has crumbled away.

jj880

Engineer Ambrose McCloskey on the new "enhanced" scheme:

https://www.donegallive.ie/news/local-news/705673/new-scheme-worse-for-homeowners-chartered-engineer.html

jj880

ambrose Issues-with-Defective-Block-Schem1.pdf

Here is Ambrose McCloskey's full piece taken from the 100% redress group. A lot of it was cut for the Donegal Live article. This government are a disgrace.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289078#Comment_118289078

Beads shouldnt show at that point. You might want to have a better look at that or if you dont feel confident enough get someone who is knowledgeable in that area.

dzer2

The best place is in the electricity panel at the meter. Where the pipe that brings the cable in enters the box

ahusband

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288408#Comment_118288408

Not my intention, I'll apologise for that.