Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Rocdoc are also testing for the HSE in Shannon.

So, to be clear, you're saying:

While using one newspaper's estimate that differs wildly from all official records of covid deaths and comes self-admittedly with "some uncertainty, sometimes enormous".

Of course the immediate issue here is that the journalists at the Economist have used excess deaths as their measure of the true number of covid deaths, whereas I will contend that at least a significant portion of those excess deaths can be attributed to the response to the pandemic rather than to Covid-19 itself. And while it may be the case that some Covid-caused deaths have been "missed" in developing countries, we know that some deaths attributed to Covid in developed nations have been shown to be "with" rather than "from" deaths (though, I will grant, a minority).

We should also be clear on what my assertion was: "The number of people alive today who would not have been if not for SARS-CoV-2 will be far outstripped by the number of people dead who would not have been if not for the disgustingly hysterical response."

That figure of "people who would be alive today if not for SARS-CoV-2" will be different from the total number of people who have died because they got and died from Covid-19.

Of course we don't have a full picture yet, and media outlets (particularly corporate and state-run media) seem hesitant to report on "collateral damage" type issues while they are still fully involved in the business of propagandising the public and pushing for more vaccination. But we have clues.

An estimated 1.5 million young people in the UK have new or worse mental health issues. These don't just result in suicide deaths. They result in deaths from substance abuse, self-neglect etc. as well. This won't just be happening in the UK.

Cancer diagnosis delays in children in Canada. Leading to worse outcomes, diagnosis at later stages, and deaths. This won't just be happening in the UK. It won't just be happening in children.

One UK oncologist estimates that there could be 60,000 excess deaths from missed cancer diagnoses during lockdowns in the coming years.

The economic knock-on effect of covid measures is impacting on charities and institutions that research cancers and other illnesses, leading to reductions in research funding and thus delays in improved treatments.

Drug overdose deaths hit an all-time high in the US. Experts have attributed the steep rise over the last two years to difficulty accessing life-saving treatments for drug abuse disorders throughout the pandemic. While the US have a specifically awful opiate crisis ongoing, signals from elsewhere suggest that the increase in substance abuse deaths through the pandemic is not isolated to the US.

In the UK, there has been a "huge rise" in deaths at home that are not explained by Covid. This is unlikely to be limited to the UK.

Oxfam estimates that lockdowns have led to mass unemployment, plummeting incomes, disruption to food production and declining humanitarian aid, which could cause 12,000 extra deaths per day.

Covid responses have derailed efforts to tackle HIV, TB and Malaria in some of the poorest countries.

Women in the Balkans turned to dangerous, experimental self-administered abortion practices when the mobile family planning services that would normally provide safe services were halted. The IPPF found that thousands of clinics that were offering contraception, abortion and HIV medications were closed due to lockdowns, leaving people without vital services and medicines for potentially life-threatening conditions.

People in Delhi were denied dialysis. This story mentions one woman who died after her sessions did not go ahead. More people who rely on transport from rural areas were unable to attend for life-saving medical treatments because of lockdowns.

Delays and disruption to normal vaccination schedules for diseases like measles and polio have left in excess of 80 million babies in poor nations at risk of serious illness and death.

A study into the effects of the pandemic on maternal and perinatal health found significant increases in stillbirth, maternal death, ruptures ectopic pregnancy and maternal mental health issues.

In two of these cases - increasing hunger and the derailment of HIV, TB and malaria treatment and prevention - experts working in each field have suggested that that issue alone could outstrip the deaths from Covid in the affected areas.

So yeah, I'm sticking with my assertion that, when this all shakes out, over-zealous "NPI" measures will turn out to have caused more deaths than Covid itself.

And if you want to talk about life years lost, it won't be remotely close.

Wife works in cancer treatment in Dublin... Countless appointments being cancelled the last while as staff isolating due to positive tests. She knows of entire machines being run down due to lack of staff in other Dublin hospitals. This is hundreds of appointments per week. Seriously grim.

And we all know that if you didn't see it happen, then it didn't really happen.

Great post - 100% agree.

Also, the response to Covid has seen a complete disregard to ask questions regarding the value for money we are seeing wrt to the response.

To take just one recent example and plans to vaccinate all 5-11 year olds - how much is this costing exactly and what benefit will we see from it?

If you take into account the cost of the vaccine itself along with the storage, transportation, administration and costs associated with paying pharmacists and doctors to administer the shots, we are looking at well over €100 per child. We have 550,000 5-11 year olds in the country so that's €55 million.

Has anyone even asked the question in the media or on the opposition benches as to whether this €55m would be better spent on something else?

This is a small sum compared with the 10s of billions we have spent on the response to Covid in the last 18 months.

The Government are pissing through taxpayers money like drunken sailors on shore-leave just to be seen to be doing something. We will all pay for this in the fullness of time when services are cut. People will die as a result of this but they won't be splashed across the front page of the RTE website.

We have been badly let down in this country be media and politicians too ready to pander to people's fears and hysterias and unwilling to ask a few hard questions

They'll never get 100% of 5-11 year olds vaccinated. Many people have come to the same conclusion that you and I have that the cost outweighs the benefit. Your headline figure of €55m will be much less due to this.

Who's hoping the uptake won't be as good?

From a financial perspective, you said yourself the cost outweighs the benefits for those jabs for children especially since theyre not at risk so theres little to be gained from vaccinating them - so from a fiscal (and indeed common sense) POV you would hope the uptake isnt that good.

Kingston Mills on NT this morning - he claims that the meeting between NPHET and the govt leaders this evening usually happens after NPHET issue advice to the govt. He also claims that the new variant is probably more transmissible but there's growing evidence that it makes you less sick than delta

Another takeaway is he recons no decision on restrictions should be made for at least 3 weeks

Claire Byrne simply gagging for new restrictions as she interviews Donnelly

Claire Byrne now talking about a "meaningful Christmas". Jesus wept.

The laziest response so far on this thread.

The poster actually provided evidence but it would appear it doesn't suit your nothing to see here narrative.

How about you actually back up your own argument instead.

47 admissions in the last 24 hours is the lowest number of admissions in a day in over 3 weeks. This is all good news.

The amounts received by independent stations last year from the government were published* and it’s clear to see why so many radio stations push covid so much! For some stations each payment would have been more than their annual revenue in normal times!

*I believe I posted a slide to this thread showing amounts