Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

I'm not sure all these new seats are safe.

All depends on how cleverly gerrymandered they are but there has been a massive exodus out of London going back before Covid and it has the potential to put cracks in the Home Counties blue wall

I think you're looking at the Haughey era FF with rose-tinted glasses if you think it was just a few bad apples.

Unfortunately, the EU demonstrated that it had zero interest in stability in NI. It is impossible to have stability in NI without having a situation that both the Republicans and Unionists can live with. Deciding to implement any sort of border between NI and the rest of the UK to "avoid a hard border between Ireland and NI" was only ever going to end in tears.

Varadkhar decided to dangle the threat of republican violence to try and force this situation. Nobody should be surprised to see the Unionists taking inspiration from this. Enda Kenny wanted to be pragmatic and work on a solution that minimised friction between Ireland and NI. Leo weaponised the threat of violence and has now been hoist by his own petard.

The only solution that will ensure stability is one that minimises friction between NI and Ireland and also between NI and the rest of the UK. It isn't the "responsibility of the UK to fix this". The UK made a legitimate choice to leave the EU. That was a decision solely for the UK to make. Ireland now needs to be pragmatic in seeking the best outcome for itself in this scenario. Ireland is free to act in its best interests as is the UK. The best interests of Ireland and the best interests of the EU are not the same thing.

Funny how this thread is 99% trying to pin all the blame on "the Brits"

There is no "English Brexit"

We are being a good neighbour. An incredibly good on in fact to both NI and our many neighbours in Europe. One neighbour is up all night shouting and blocking our driveway on purpose and don't deserve any respect from us.

Of all the parties involved no one is showing more care about the North than we are and I include a lot of the Northern parties in that group that don't have NIs best interest

Don't see Varadkar hoisted anywhere, not sure what you're on about.

The UK voted to leave the EU as was their right. Choosing to do so ruptured the delicate peace process in NI which was based on both the UK and RoI being in the EU i.e. single market and customs union, common standards, invisible border etc etc

Brexit destabilised NI and whilst the myriad of actual and proposed mitigations (back stop, sea border, unicorn technology etc) are designed to minimise that destabilisation none will return NI to the peaceful status quo which existed pre Brexit.

If we have a hard border with NI and I mean a real one not like what we had before it's gonna be a lot more serious than an auld Garda in a box on the side of the road. I know the population is vastly bigger but have you seen the Polish crossings.

Placate the UK !!!! If the EU keep doing this UK will just keep comimg back for more. EU should give UK a week to accept its latest offer, if rejected then let UK decide what it wants to do. If Art 16 then retaliate \ take legal actions allowed by Agreement. We are in the EU now and have to take the good with the bad. In some ways we are now more powerful than UK as we are the EU.

Just wanted to ask. Is this comedy hour ?

The reason I ask that in a serious manner is all of the actually hilarous 'points' you just made have been positively thrashed in the 5 years this thread has been running.

I won't be debating on old ground as I've run out of comedic retorts to baseless claims such as the quote above ..

Absolute nonsense narrative that the right-wing press has been pusing in the UK for the last few years. These people don't know the first thing about Irish or Northern Irish politics (and nor do they care).

Where did you hear this nonsense I wonder?

The only situation that both nationalists & unionists could live with was EU membership. How do you propose that the EU break the UK to such an extent that the UK wouldn't dare to brexit?

As regards Mr VaradakaraforeignnameIcan'tspell, where did he dangle republican violence? Please point out a single incident -& please indicate where he deviated from Kenny or any other Irish politician or political party?

What Ireland must do is bring the UK to heel. The UK needs to learn its place - & learn that it must do as instructed by more powerful states - such as Ireland - or the Faroe islands.

Ensuring that the UK learns its place in the most painful way possible is in Ireland's interest -I agree that the Ireland needs to do more to convince the EU of this.

That is some twisting of the facts. The EU and Ireland have tried their best to negotiate Brexit with the UK so there would be smallest possible impacts on NI but current UK govt. is not interested in that.

No politicians on UK or EU or Irish sides made any "threats of violence" incl. Leo "Varadkhar" (sp). It is a fact that Brexit destabilises NI politically (this has already happened as predicted), which could lead to violence again given its history, and many people pointed this out. Giving a personal opinion, serious violence may be unlikely over these issues however it comes out in the end. Unionist political leaders have been banging the drums hard, directly calling on people to come out and protest for months over the NI Protocol, but actual level of anger about it, let alone willingness to commit acts of violence (absent some street protests by teenagers, graffiti and vandalism) seems low.

I don't recall any major difference between the 2 (3 now) Irish leaders in how they approached Brexit over last few years or what they have wanted to get for Ireland/NI out of the EU/UK Brexit negotiations. There is perhaps a difference of tone. Varadkar is a straight speaker and sometimes makes remarks off the cuff IMO, which has gotten him into alot of trouble domestically and he does the same on all subjects incl. foreign affairs. It seems to have made him a hate figure for Brexiters/Ulster Unionists. That is very funny in a way, given the undiplomatic comments the current UK PM is known (& loved) for.

On solutions there is none which is perfect here given UKs hard Brexit. Someone in NI is going to be disappointed. I mean even your "solution" of "Ireland being pragmatic" (I think that is probably some nice code for distancing ourselves from the EU, kowtowing to the UK govt. or the "Will of the British People" if you prefer that formulation) may not make Nationalists in NI very happy, even if might keep trade between NI-Ireland flowing freely and the border without customs. It is certainly not going to make people in this country happy. (Irish) people will see it for what it is at root really. As above bowing down to the UK, now run by a faction who don't like us much or wish us well + the Irish govt. and people doing things they don't want to (compromising on EU membership for sake of NI). Noone will think that is actually in Ireland's "best interests".