Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

I saw one writer / blogger suggesting during the week that a UK referendum on zero emissions would go exactly the same way as the Brexit one. The No side would be funded by dark money from God knows where and all sorts of propaganda and misleading info would be put out in order to confuse voters (and no doubt the right wing press would come down on the side of the No crowd).

I imagine the vote would be on whether the UK should 'aim' for (or legislate to try and achieve) zero emissions by 2050.

Seems slightly weird that the climate change deniers think a UK referendum will solve all their problems, but that's where we are.

Considering that having a party like UKIP/BREXIT/BNP is what pushed a conservative government to do the last stupid referendum and that stupid refertendum equally had a "what does Brexit mean?" quandry around it. Having an anti green party doesnt say a stupid referendum is completely off the books.

I mean of the last 3 referendums in the uk, 2 of them were from conservatives being pushed by smaller parties activities pushing them into it (and them not wanting them)

By that track record I wont be surprised at some sort of anti green referendum does get shipped around in a decade or so.

It's intriguing that they see a referendum as a weapon to be used 'against' the government and to force them to change tack. A complete perversion of how referendums are held in nearly democracy in the world. Everywhere else, the government holds a referendum in order to help them enact legislative change ; change that they have decided on and are in favour of.

They (the Brexity types and their press pals) see it as something that can be used to subvert the government and the parliament and force them to bow to 'the will of the people'.

I know little enough of these things, but it seems the Bank of England had given quite strong hints/guidance that interest rates would be lifted in November and then failed to do it, and indeed last weeks commentary from them was quite watery around future rate rises. The Sterling fall was a reaction to the failure to carry through what they had been forecasting. The second part is that they seem to be reluctant to add any pressure onto their economy. (which might hint at worries about their direction of travel)

The Torygraph saying that an EU diplomat said said EU is prepared for war with UK.

Dangerous stuff for Ireland. We must try to placate UK as much as possible, despite our views on UK government.

We have the most to lose.

As The Telegraph is behind a paywall, can you advise is it a trade war they are talking about? Surely, talk about anything else is unbelievable stuff.

In the event of a trade war, we would really need the support of the EU.

No the souce just said War.

Perhaps trade war was what they meant but nevertheless dangerous stuff.

I completely disagree with you here - that would just be allowing the UK to divide and conquer as they have done for centuries. This is an EU-UK battle, and we are part of it. Getting cold feet and panicking, and allowing the UK to bully us into a poor situation would be a very poor strategy. It would also just embolden the UK to keep pushing their luck.

And unless you have a personal reason to be afraid of any trade war - maybe your business is exposed? - I can't see why you would even be talking this way.

While I don't share "hotmail.com's" point of view, i have to concur in a round about sort of way.

I believe the UK are betting that Ireland buckles and will agree to carry their water for them, regards the EU and SM.

And I think they may be correct on that.

Can hardly have confidence in the current government.

I suppose Ireland will offer a fudge of the issue: 'checks away from border", but ultimately we'll get pushed toward checks between Ireland and France.

To 'keep the peace' you know.

The Daily Telegraph...would not seem to be a great source for what is going on in the EU/EU member states.

I don't really see the problem with "someone" saying "prepare for war" here anyway, and the meaning is obvious so interpreting the quote some other more literal way is dishonest.

Endless fighting, struggle, daring battles + winning "victories" over the EU again and again seems to be what the UK govt. want. What is the EU to do? Maybe ultimately dissolve itself, the Single Market and the Customs Union to oblige UK govt and Tory party so Brexit can be a great success for Global Britain? The discussions on how to implement NI protocol will run out of road at some point (edit: given UK have no intention of doing so at present), and then all that's left is to try and force the UK to implement it (or very worst case just punish them for breaking the agreement). The EU should be ready for that.

I think Ireland is doing the best it can in almost impossible circumstances. What else can the govt. here do? Only thing that would really "placate" the UK Brexiters on this issue is I think their hope of Ireland having to distance itself from the EU, accepting a sort of half-membership with Customs between it + rest of the member states. That's what this is all about, what they are aiming & hoping for with all the hoo-hah over NI.

Even if everything turned out just perfectly for them and that (somehow) happened, Ireland is a small country in the end, and it distancing itself from EU in this way is not actually going to break up the EU, so I really think it would be just onward and upward to next point of conflict/struggle for the UK once NI has finally served its use.

Could be that Ireland accepts goods with British standards, and anything moving off the island to the EU is Ireland's responsibility.