Where would you go next...

Did you go for the m sport seats ? They look great. Same as standard seat in the m3/4.

what else did you spec on the car?

I have my name down for a test drive with my dealer when they arrive which they say is end of November/ start of December as far as they know.

It's easy to see the appeal of the i4 even as a diehard ICE fan, I mean it's still largely based on the ICE 4 series (and that's definitely a good thing in my book) and it has a much nicer interior than most EVs, thank goodness the iDrive is still there and with physical buttons, it is superb value for money really so it's no wonder people are interested in them. It is cheaper to buy and cheaper to run than an M440i, no question. The performance does sound immense for a non full fat M car although I imagine like most EVs it trails off at higher speeds. Just look at one compared to a Tesla and you just know BMW have absolutely destroyed them for looks, useability and interior quality. Being based on the G2X generation (which I'm reassured has the handling and driving pleasure of the older 3 series) it should be a good car to drive.

All that said, there's definitely a market for an M440i - it's got a BMW straight six petrol after all, I've driven a few different versions of BMW's glorious six cylinder petrols and all of them are an absolute joy to drive. What's great about this car compared to older six cylinder BMWs (especially those on cc based engine tax), is that you can sort of have your cake and eat it - sure the tax is expensive compared to an i4, but if you're coming from an older six cylinder petrol BMW it's very, very reasonable - at €600 it is less than a 1.8 litre car on the old cc system and even compared to many six cylinder BMWs on the CO2 system, it's cheaper but you're getting between 100 and 200 bhp more. My 325 is €480 more to tax but has nearly 200 bhp less. A 3.0 petrol on the old system is nearly €900 dearer (894 to be precise). It's all the more remarkable when you think that this car has its CO2 rating on the WLTP rather than the NEDC. If you're not doing much mileage, well then the fuel costs don't matter so much (even now) and yes electric tax is €120, but €600 is still very reasonable IMO. In particular, it's an absolute steal compared to the €2400 you'll be paying for a new M3 or M4 - now they are cars that I think are redundant in Ireland because of our tax system, especially if they offer us with a RWD 340i/440i as they do (or will do in the case of the 3 series once the LCI is introduced) in other markets, that will be even lighter and thus more dynamic and closer to an M car.

It could be the very last 3/4 series with a six cylinder engine option - the next 3/4 series BEV option will be using the 'Neue Klasse' platform which was designed from the outside for BEV, but no confirmation what's happening with the next ICE 3/4 series. If that switches to the Neue Klasse platform then there won't be a six cylinder option (that platform can take ICE, but only transversely). You can imagine what that will do for resale values of the ICE cars - just look at how older BMWs are shooting up in value, they've got things that the newer cars don't, like normally aspirated engines, hydraulic steering (no car I've driven has steering as good as that provided by any BMW with a hydraulic steering rack, just so beautifully weighted, so natural feeling, and oodles of feedback), manual gearboxes, etc. Also, the fact remains, that BEV technology is advancing at such a rate that even EVs from a few years ago look hopelessly outdated in tech and range.

Where the petrol engine really comes into its own is on weight - it's an astonishing 500 kilos lighter than an i4 M50, this is why despite the on paper gap of ~ 150 bhp, there is just 0.5 seconds of a gap in the 0-100 sprint (and 4.4 seconds is hardly shabby or slow). But I'm not too interested in that - like I say, 4.4 is more than enough performance for most people, but losing 500 kilos is absolutely going to transform the ride and especially the handling. A BMW is about the driving experience after all - so the character of a petrol engine (especially a six cylinder) and the superior handling that goes with a much lighter car will make for a more rewarding driving experience IMO.

I also like the fact that the ICE 4 series has the separate instrument cluster and iDrive, plus it still has the physical buttons for the temperature and radio, the new dual screen thing looks so cheap and tacky, so that's another win for the ICE G26 in my book (though I acknowledge the fact that the ICE G26 will be getting the same interior as the BEV G26 from mid-2023).

Not trying to knock your choice in any way and like I say, it's easy to see the appeal of the i4 (especially if one if a company car driver as you can still get the 0% tax on the first €50k of the purchase price), just wanted to counter some of the assertions by some of the usual EV fanboy posters about why people might buy, and want to buy, an M440i, both new, and especially, used.

The biggest issue with ICE (and one I find increasingly hard to justify) is the levels of CO2 emitted, especially from the sorts of cars that I like. I have no idea how as a country we are going to manage to achieve a 51% CO2 emissions reduction by 2030 compared to 2018 but it is certainly the right thing to aim for.

Fortunately, for both petrolheads and the planet alike, that disadvantage won't be there forever.

As soon as next year, Prodrive will be using their new Ecopower fuel for rallying. This is a synthetic fuel. F1 will be using them once the next generation of powertrain is introduced in 2025. What's so wonderful about synthetic fuels is that they are net carbon neutral - of course there is carbon emitted as part of burning them, but they are made by capturing carbon. So, motorsports can continue to have loud and nice sounding engines long into the future, which is great! Obviously ICE is much lighter than BEV, and as you'd imagine, that rather matters in racing.

https://www.prodrive.com/post/prodrive-develops-sustainable-motorsport-fuel

But there is even better news about synthetic fuels, and that is that we can use them in our ICE cars, no modifications whatsoever like other low carbon fuels from the past (such as E85)! Then not only will the big drawback of ICE be gone, and we can truly enjoy our ICE machines with a clean conscience, but they will be greener than BEV - because they are much lighter, and require far fewer materials (and hence less carbon) in the manufacturing process. And if they really are net carbon neutral, then there will be less CO2 even driving them, after all when we talk about EVs being 'zero emissions', we never mention all the CO2 emitted in creating the electricity that goes into them - whereas CO2 emissions from petrol and diesel do take account not just the carbon created in burning them, but the carbon created in extracting them from the earth. That's a total double standard, and it needs to be called out more by the manufacturers and customers alike. It's so unfair and makes it seem like BEV is much greener than is truly the case.

This is actually why I dislike BEV so much - there are better alternatives if people are prepared to wait it out. Companies like JCB and Toyota are developing hydrogen combustion engines, again the sheer convenience and lightness of petrol or diesel, but zero emissions. Even in the electrified sphere, fuel cell strikes me as a much better way to go, because even though they are going be every bit as soulless and dull to drive as a BEV, at least they have the range of petrol or diesel, and re-filling is only going to take marginally longer than ICE.

This is also why I'm not even slightly worried about not being able to use ICE cars long into the future - with the emissions problem gone, the reason to ban their usage is gone with it (synthetic fuels also reduce other emissions from ICE cars, such as particulates and NOx). That means that iconic ICE cars like the Porsche 911, big engined BMWs, etc etc are going to continue to appreciate in value.

Is anyone making the argument that an 80k car is a money saving exercise? It's wasting less money than buying the lower performance more expensive ice version but still a hideously expensive endeavor.

For someone who drives a 15 year old 3 series you know an awful lot about the new models for someone who has absolutely no intention of buying anything!

I think you’re conflating drivers of old 6-cylinder cars (I think it’s fair to say they’re all traditional car guys/petrolheads), with the wealthy guys who are buying an €80k 3.0L petrol car.

you’re also comparing the cost to tax these cars, when in reality it’s the lowest of the costs between tax, fuel and depreciation.

the entire history of Irish new car sales would tell you that large petrol engines depreciate like a rock, and the 440i is no different. My most recent new car is a 4series, I test drove both the 3.0 petrol and diesel and just couldn’t justify the additional €15-25k.

Even the 420d depreciated over €20k in 2 years, in mSport plus spec.

i think you need to buy an expensive new car to realise just how much depreciation costs. Honestly I barely think about fuel and tax any more.

for sure - the gap between a 420d and a 430d in the 2nd hand market is pretty minimal. It was €8k diff when new (57k v 65k).

incidentally the diff at the time between the 520d and 530d (same engines and power) was about €15k! Absolutely no reason for it to be nearly double

re your point on the powerful EV’s depreciating more than the other models, that’s already the case - look at almost any tesla model S, they depreciated pretty much like any €120k car did, and according to the UK car magazines, EVs like the taycan turbo are tumbling once they leave the forecourt, versus the entry level ones - it might get interesting if for example a model 3P is only a few K more than a SR+ when they’re 6-8yrs old

What he make you buy?

ID3 or 4?!

You don't have that very long, do you? Did you get tired of it or just fancy a change?

Lovely car Vintage vrs.

in the current market, I can see that shifting pretty quickly.

did Mark inspire you to buy it or sell it?

Funny - I want to change my diesel mile muncher for a school run car, and I can’t decide between jumping to an EV or else get the new midlife refresh fiesta ST3 with a full spec (around €34/35k).

ah here. €38k with just 2 options: performance blue and pano roof.

ignore the base price, you can only buy the st3

Having driven both ioniq5 and ID4 I would go for the Hyundai over the VW

way more wow factor and design but I think Kia EV6 may be a better bet again. More of a drivers car apparently and loads of kit.

Completely agree with you regarding depreciation, also there have always been very few petrol or even diesel BMW’s sold new here. I bought three and all from the UK and now that option is gone.

A Hyundai Ioniq5 parked beside my this evening. I honestly couldn’t get over how ugly it was. At least the VW is less futuristic looking and will age better.

If you're buying a fiesta new, make sure to buy the LEDs. I'd choose them over the roof tbh.

It's not the relative bargain it used to be. I think some posters on here bought brand new Mk7 sts for 22-23k. Fair enough the now come with all the bells/whistles/tech and a diff, but still....