Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

26-10-2021 03:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074758#Comment_118074758

Care to hazard a guess as to what the dotted line after 2019 in the below chart from ourworldindata.org means?

Check your sources people

watchingfromafar · 26-10-2021 03:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075406#Comment_118075406

Okay, whats your point?

What does all cause mortality have to do with my argument that lockdowns didn't reduce Covid deaths as a ratio in Ireland V Sweden?

Your graph doesn't explain why Swedens covid deaths weren't higher than Irelands when we factor in average deaths per 1000 per year and population size adjustments or population age.

Covid not all cause. All cause would require we look at so many factors it wouldn't even be about covid anymore and nobody here has the time or knowledge of how to do a proper multivariate analysis on death rates in each country.

Honestly your response was a simplistic "gotcha" tactic and didn't wash as you can see who likes each post.

Feel free to go through my ABCD points and debunk them one by one with a good argument worth reading.

26-10-2021 03:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075202#Comment_118075202

The contention was that it was no more serious than Hong Kong flu or swine flu which the data as presented, with zero edits, quite clearly showed not to be the case, so where the f do you think you get off accusing people of being dishonest because they post something you don't like.

26-10-2021 03:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074933#Comment_118074933

Using the same incorrect data twice to make a ponit, tut tut

growleaves · 26-10-2021 03:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075435#Comment_118075435

Estimates

Are you capable of dealing with anything other than theoretical projections which you consider more real than reality?

Earlier you had projections that an extra 19 million people died in the last 18 months, yet the actual figures of worldwide deaths from 2019 to end of 2020 show you need to think again about your dreams in graph form.

astrofool · 26-10-2021 03:40PM

You can see data much more clearly by comparing Sweden to it's neighbours, Ireland has it's own unique circumstance that mean the numbers don't compare directly (mostly a large open border with a neighbour that was very slow at moving to restrictions).

If we want to be like anyone, it's Denmark, not Sweden, but the anti-lockdown folk blow a fuse when they do that comparison (or even if you do the comparison with the anti-lockdown red states in the US, Nevada has a higher death count than Ireland despite being 4 times bigger and having a smaller population, the deaths also skew towards the minorities and poorest which shows that cessation of treatment did occur due to lack of money).

26-10-2021 03:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075479#Comment_118075479

I will give you a hint.

Or do I need to spell out that the numbers you referenced were from a 2019 report, with numbers for 2020 and beyond being projections, made in 2019, and that no actual data for 2020 exists on the site you referenced

watchingfromafar · 26-10-2021 03:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075489#Comment_118075489

Ill come back to your post after work. But I will quickly highlight that in 2018/19 Sweden a below normal excess death rate while the other nordic countries had a higher than normal excess death rate. Thats one factor that lead to a lot of older people in Sweden making it into 2020. But you are right it requires we look into different factors

But I find it ironic that you tell me not to compare Sweden to Ireland and then go on to compare Nevada to Ireland when you feel it suits your argument?

Nordic countries did have lockdowns but nowhere near as hard or as long as our and managed to still have lower deaths than ours. Not really a glowing win for lockdowns having an effect. Surely ours should have been much lower given the harshness of our measures?

Penfailed · 26-10-2021 03:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075282#Comment_118075282

Let's just wait and see, eh? I know you are paranoid about the Great Reset and Build Back Better and all that but to come on here and say it's 'clear enough' that it will 'probably' be integrated with the green pass is merely speculation. You can't state that something is 'clear' and then say that it's only a 'probably' when it might not happen at all.

26-10-2021 03:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075437#Comment_118075437

Thankfully likes on the restrictions thread are not a arbitrator of reality

Your arguments have been thrashed out and repeated multiple time, and the but Sweden refrain is repeated daily. Regional variations in deaths happen annually and confound specific local conclusions. And even so, but Norway, but Denmark, but Finland - those being the most directly comparable.

astrofool · 26-10-2021 04:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075546#Comment_118075546

I'm pointing out that the comparisons aren't that useful due to a number of factors, your Sweden comparison to Ireland is as much use as Nevada.

Compare Sweden to Denmark, Finland or Norway, and they come out worse in all measures, they are not a pattern to follow.

bokale · 26-10-2021 04:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075343#Comment_118075343

But does anyone going to those events really have an issue with obtaining q ticket an hour before. I'd say it'll be more the coppers crowd who will actually be effected.

watchingfromafar · 26-10-2021 04:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075575#Comment_118075575

The post I was responding to was making the exceptional claim of "deaths would be multiple times greater"

My point is that there is absolutely no evidence for that. Or that lockdowns curves the cases. They weren't the cause of our cases dropping on Jan 10th 2021 as "anti" lockdown Swedens cases also peaked and dropped from Jan 10th. As did many countries across the EU.

Sure there are differences between countries. There are countries like Lithuania, Slovian and Latvia that all acted differently despite varying degrees of restrictions.

My entire point is there is no clear link between lockdowns and reduction in cases/deaths.

If there was then all the countries that lockdown would our perform those that didn't every single time. That isn't the case.

Red Silurian · 26-10-2021 04:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075378#Comment_118075378

And how is the sweedish health system looking these days?

darconio · 26-10-2021 04:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075549#Comment_118075549

Absolutely man all we can do is just wait and see. You can call it paranoia, I call it probable outcome based on what we have seen this far: I don't believe in the great reset as a "rebirth" as they are selling it to us and don't know what build back better is. If we are at this point we either have a bunch of idiots at the governments, and a even more gullible population, or we have a diabolical plan enacted slowly one step at a time to convince the majority of it's goodness and normality. I said this now so the usual suspects in here can address me in the usual manner (doom monger, conspiracy theorist and so on) : vax certs are not going anywhere, masks are here to stay, restrictions based on the vax status are going to be enforced in many other fields. So much for relaxation of restrictions....

Red Silurian · 26-10-2021 04:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075635#Comment_118075635

Everybody has that one friend who will either forget to book anything online or book the wrong venue. House parties are back on

Quags · 26-10-2021 04:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075745#Comment_118075745

Most times you go to a nightclub is on the spur of a moment and want to continue drinking while trying to pull 😂

ceadaoin. · 26-10-2021 04:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075489#Comment_118075489

Nevada isn't an "anti lockdown red state". We have a democratic governor and voted for Biden (and clinton). So not sure where you're getting that from. There was a lockdown but then it became apparent that there was no way in hell we could continue to keep everything closed and completely destroy the state and citizens any further.

Penfailed · 26-10-2021 04:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075722#Comment_118075722

I reckon it'll all be done by spring next year...barring a new mutation. Here's hoping.

namloc1980 · 26-10-2021 04:44PM

What's the craic with late bars? Will you be kicked out at 11.30 and have to queue to get back in with your digital ticket? Bar owner on Newstalk said that they got no clarity yet on that.

Red Silurian · 26-10-2021 04:45PM

I haven't gone clubbing in a long time - but when I did I'd plan to go clubbing after a bar, not necessarily which club though. Still the problem is one and the same

Videos of people queuing last weekend outside coppers are getting a bad rep. I haven't seen them myself but they need to be taken in context that everybody was outdoors in the queue, everybody in the queue was fully vaccinated and everybody in that queue were together indoors shortly after the video anyway!