Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074607#Comment_118074607

In time we will see if the juice was worth the squeeze.

One thing we can all agree on, vaccinated or not. Our health service is under delivering for the funding that we give to it.

That should be the real protest. We all know we are lead by incompetent dithering fools who are in it for themselves really.

But don't worry about that they have the state media in pocket to keep us arguing between ourselves while the blame gets deflected away from them. 🙃

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074601#Comment_118074601

What exactly about your post disproves anything I said.

We already know Sweden has 50% more deaths per 1000 people EVERY year.

Please don't just go to "im right dot com" and post a graph without explaining your point.

EDIT: If you would like me to explain that Sweden had a below average death rate in 2019 I could easily show you why they have excess deaths the following year.

What is your graph showing? Per million?

EDIT 2. Even if Swedens "all cause" mortality increased that doesn't prove lockdowns work. Excess mortality doesn't say if it was ALL covid and it's wrong to assume that it does since we have covid figures.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074573#Comment_118074573

wow . that is some statement of ignorance.

shesty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074348#Comment_118074348

Fair point. But I suppose it comes down to the same thing, in the 80s and 90s, we simply didn't have the technology to work from home and there was no way businesses could sustain paying the population for weeks on end to sit at home and do absolutely nothing. So lockdowns probably wouldn't have been considered as a viable option.

In terms of how we reacted to it, I suppose I am thinking of how we might have reacted in the 80s and 90s. In the here and now - so for example 2018, as you say - the medical technology alone is probably more advanced, so we would react differently now. As you say, comparing now to the Spanish Flu or TB is not comparable, but comparing how we might have reacted in the 80s or 90s might be a little bit more comparable to those 2 diseases. By which I mean you can't lock society down as we do now, so what do we do?

Sorry, that's all a bit confusing.

growleaves

Here are worldwide deaths for the decade:

2010 - 54.50 million

2011 - 54.64 million

2012 - 54.84 million

2013 - 55.09 million

2014 - 55.41 million

2015 - 55.82 million

2016 - 56.33 million

2017 - 56.94 million

2018 - 57.63 million

2019 - 58.39 million

2020 - 59.23 million

Ourworldindata.org

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074318#Comment_118074318

So too much effort to book a nightclub ticket 1 hour in advance but absolutely no problem going up north or flying off to god knows where.....right.....very convincing.....

Re the ticketing nonsense, could they not just "check in" at the door using the app?

SupplyandDemandZone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073944#Comment_118073944

This country 🤣

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074340#Comment_118074340

how does one join the covid cult?

asking for a friend....

growleaves

Here are worldwide deaths for the last four years:

2017 - 56.94 million

2018 - 57.63 million

2019 - 58.39 million

2020 - 59.23 million

Notice how 2020 is at the normal rate of increase as the generation born in 1945 enters their mid-seventies.

The 2020 figure doesn't jump up by 5 or 10 million because dying from a respiratory illness is *already* the commonest cause of death among the elderly whether we are in a respiratory-illness pandemic or not.

There is flu, there is Norovirus, there is RSV etc., etc. - they all overlap.

There is also cancer, cardiac arrest, kidney disease, liver disease etc which overlap with positive PCR test results ('cases')

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074509#Comment_118074509

We locked down and as a result we now have waiting lists much longer than we had before COVID, that much is true, but even with lockdowns and restrictions the HSE pressure went to the brink.

Could you imagine how bad it would be if we hadn't locked down though?

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074986#Comment_118074986

I'd say no worse off in terms of deaths and health service.

but as a country we sacrificed everything on the altar of covid19.

from a medical point of view nearly all other medical appointments were postponed for periods. we heard at the weekend that lockdown has contributed to a large increase in kids in hospital due to RSV this year... then there are a million and one other impacts on society and people.

the reality we don't know the full impact - this will come later with analysis and won't be known for years when the current drama has passed.

was it worth it? I'd say a firm no.

just to add- the HSE can't tell Peader Tobin TD (he wrote to them) how many appointments etc.. cancelled due to covid...so it could be massive.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074823#Comment_118074823

They want to avoid queuing before entry as well though... Not that I see a point in doing that if the queue is outside... But is there an easier way avoid queuing? Maybe if people could upload their vaccine pass as well could save time at the door

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075087#Comment_118075087

You honestly think that if we hadn't locked down our health service would be no worse off? Where would the 2000 extra beds we needed in January come from then?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074566#Comment_118074566

You cannot compare absolute numbers of deaths for those pandemics - global population is massive now, several million deaths is less than 1% of global population.

Rank that chart based on % population killed and then get back to us.

One of the most dishonest posts on this thread - and thats saying something

Vaccinated30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074933#Comment_118074933

Norovirus hit my house 2 weeks ago. I would have rathered Covid. The amount of vomit and **** was awful.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075203#Comment_118075203

My friend was hospitalised with Norovirus a few months ago after avoiding almost all human contact for over a year in fear of covid.

Burty330

Fooping tickets.. Neither publican nor punter has any clue what this ticket baloney is all about. Bout time we found a backbone and stood up to these tyrants. They can't do anything if every establishment in the country rejects their nonsense.

This shambolic government is making a total embarrassment of themselves. I want to leave tbh

Vaccinated30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075222#Comment_118075222

I wonder if it hit so bad bevause of the almost sterile world the past 18months... Immune systems all shot to bits

darconio

Re. ticketing for nightclub: is it not clear enough that it will be probably integrated with the green pass? The system is there already. I know, the green pass is only a temporary measure for the safety of humanity, so , no, it can't be.... oh wait

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074641#Comment_118074641

I still don't understand what your point is then. You can't have excess deaths occur without restrictions being in place without there also being cessation of treatment which you are also not in favour of, which de facto means you are in support of the current restrictions to keep the hospitalisation numbers low so that everybody who needs treatment, gets treatment. You are talking yourself into a logical fallacy.

Not everyone is put on a ventilator, but to keep the hospitalisations count down without restrictions would require not using ventilators on those that might otherwise survive.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074699#Comment_118074699

Do explain then, second opportunity to engage not taken.

shesty

Increasing as population increases?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075290#Comment_118075290

I disagree. I've already written a thousand posts on assuming restrictions suppress illness vs proving it so I won't repeat it.

See watchingfromafars statistical explication a few pages back

griffdaddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074815#Comment_118074815

Don't take this the wrong way, but when was the last time you went to an actual nightclub to see a DJ? It's not all about getting sh1tfaced in Coppers. Open the Resident Advisor events page for Dublin and compare it to pretty much any city in the world at the moment and you'll quickly see what the problem is and how bad it is and how absolutely pointless sh1t like a one hour ticket in advance is exacerbating the issue.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075282#Comment_118075282

No, that's not clear at all, if that was the case then yes that makes complete sense... In fairness nothing is clear regarding most of these restrictions lately

Don't Chute!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074855#Comment_118074855

It’s fairly easy, you just need to slavishly follow every single thing the Government and NPHET say no matter how fcuking stupid. You need an unbelievably heightened sense of self-righteousness and superiority to other people. You need to be able to show an undying compassion for grannies but no compassion whatsoever for The Great Unvaccinated. It also really helps if you drive down an empty motorway in an otherwise empty car while wearing a mask. You must also enjoy only doing things that aren’t restricted so as to be able to fool yourself into believing that there actually are no restrictions. Although as restrictions are a movable feast you must be flexible in this regard.

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074986#Comment_118074986

You assumption is all based on the premise that lockdowns worked to stop the spread of covid.

As I pointed out in my Sweden vs Ireland post above there is absolutely NO evidence of lockdowns reduced the spread of covid 19.

We hit the peak of cases on January 10th at the exact same time Sweden with no lockdown also hit the peak of its cases. Why didn't theirs continue to grow as ours dropped from our lockdown? Why in January 10th did theirs drop at the same time as ours?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074667#Comment_118074667

"My" graph shows excess morality as %. Excess mortality is not measured against the previous year, Its over the previous 4 years.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075333#Comment_118075333

So now, restrictions don't suppress case numbers, hospitalisations and deaths?

What was the detour about excess deaths and "time to die" about then?

Restrictions are in place to manage hospital capacity, the current restrictions are in favor of the vaccinated as the unvaccinated are much more likely to end up in hospital (12x). To have equal restrictions on unvaccinated and vaccinated would mean closing a sector of society (pubs and entertainment most likely), the government is going the approach of opening as much as possible, favoring the vaccinated and watching the hospital capacity.

As you rightly point out, the other option is to drop all restrictions and let more people die, but this involves cessation of treatment at some point or the hospitals would be overrun. You also reject this (as any right minded person would) but it leaves your argument with no substance other than "somehow restrictions don't reduce case count and hospitalisations and deaths". But we can prove that they do by comparing experiences in different countries as they reached their health system capacity limits and these overwhelmingly show that restrictions work.