Gardai & Cycling

If this thread, or this forum, is to be conducted on the basis that only fatalities count and that other lawbreaking is therefore acceptable, then the thread should be locked at there is no point in debate.

Whilst your observations, hypothetical scenarios and anecdotes are fascinating, the simple facts remain. Cyclists are better, more skilled and safer road users than motorists.

Actually, there were two deaths where cyclists were responsible for the other party's death - the 2002 case and one in either 2019 or 2020 on a cycle path somewhere in Tipp. But the relative scale of the causes of deaths on the road that you set out still stands.

Would you like to present some alternative data about the comparative rates of injuries caused by motorists, motorcyclists, cyclists and pedestrians perhaps?

That's not the arument. Its already been proven, that minor cycling offences are fined and enforced.

The argument you're making is that some thing less dangerous should more enforced the same, (or more) than something less dangerous.

While not being able to demonstrate in any way that it as dangerous or more dangerous. Or as someone suggested making the pavements across the whole city, country even, unusable.

Even the anecdotal tale of woe in the open post, there was no injury. It was a near miss. There was no accident. There is rule breaking though, for which there are fines for.

It's difficult to take your concerns about safety culture seriously, when you dismiss speeding by motorists (one of the top three causes of road deaths) with a flimsy excuse like "More drivers break urban speed limits then cyclists because their vehicles are of the capacity to do so more then cyclists".

Drivers are supposed to know the capacity of their vehicles and control the vehicle accordingly. It's not a great excuse really.

I'm a cyclist primarily but I also own a car for occasional use. I'm also a pedestrian of course and it's my experience and observations as such that have mostly informed my contributions to this thread.

I've noticed a significant change, particularly over the last couple of years due to two factors. Firstly the increasing growth of e-transport other than cars, things like e-bikes and scooters. Secondly during Covid more people are riding bikes who probably haven't ridden one since childhood.

E-bikes allow people to cycle at higher speeds especially when going uphill which increases the potential for accidents especially when coupled with lack of experience.

My impression is that during the Covid lockdowns the Gardai had other priorities/duties imposed upon them and as well were anxious not to antagonise the public so have adopted an even lower level of cycling enforcement.

I appreciate you enjoyed reading my post! However, I’d like to see some evidence to support this claim and show that it’s not just speculation or biased opinion. I won’t argue that there may be indeed be a higher ratio of collisions caused by car (and similar vehicle) drivers compared to cyclists, however the fact is there is also (afaik) a higher % of car owners than those who cycle as their main mode of transport & I think it was said earlier in the thread that getting hit by a car would be better than a bike haha.

id have to argue that comparing bikes and cars is the same as apples to oranges. They’re similarities start and stop with “they are modes of transport” you can’t really say the skill to cycle a bike is greater to or equal than the skills required to drive a car. I mean were that the case would you therefore argue that you should be required to pass a theory & cycle test and possess a licence to cycle a bike? I doubt that very much because it would be a farce. I think the base of a good debate starts with being honest. If you wish to continue this topic with me, I suggest you start by telling yourself the truth, not some crazy fallacies about the skill barrier between a push bike and a car.

However, I will absolutely agree that the majority of motor vehicle drivers have some sort of idea in their heads that they own the roads they drive on (maybe it’s the car tax?) and will behave as though any error - especially ones on their part are your fault. I’m not a bicycle user but I do have an escooter, where I live has no cycle lanes so I stick close to the footpaths or the hard shoulders but the safest way for me to ride is off the paths and on the road but I make as much effort as I can to stay out of peoples way, but I can’t begin to even think how many occasions I’ve had car drivers (funnily it’s always cars not jeeps, vans etc) run a stop sign and blow their horn at me because I had right of way and the same nonsense on roundabouts especially.

the point there being I don’t necessarily agree that driving a car is easier than cycling a bike, but certainly some people should not hold a licence and it’s a **** miracle they got one in the first place. I’ve argued on many an occasion that a licence expires after about 10 years I think isn’t it for a full licence and anyone wishing to renew should be made to sit their drivers test again or some sort of competency exam. I can’t for love nor money understand how someone can get a full licence at 18 and drive for say 50 years renewing their licence 5 times in that space and never be required to revisit their test. its a joke.

The question therefore arises. Should take peoples opinion as more important than actual studies and research.

if so, who's opinion should we act one. Yours or mine. if everyone said they don't want taxes should we just do that.

See that’s different to what you just said earlier. What you asserted was there is a higher skill barrier to cycling a bike vs driving a car. This is the part I take most objection to & if you could provide evidence to support that claim please?

All you’ve effectively proven with those statistics (are they to be considered accurate) is

1. some car drivers in Dublin are arseholes
2. cyclists don’t tend to cycle in front of the Luas.

and I mean of course they don’t, if you get hit by one on a bicycle let’s be fair, you’re probably going to die. A car? Not as likely depending on the speed of the collision but you at least have a metal shell, air bags etc to protect you to some degree. I think it’s disingenuous to asset that cycling is a higher skilled activity than driving a car or in fact that a cyclist is inherently less reckless by virtue of not wanting to cause a collision. I would argue however that it’s largely a self interest thing and the nature of human preservation. in general, we don’t do things we are almost certain will injur or kill us, which definitely falls under the category of “not riding ur bike on a luas line”. As for the red light thing; the entire topic of this thread is discussing the potential that Gardai turn a blind eye to cyclists breaking the rules of the road, why would that not carry onto any road statistics?

One would assume that they used garda records for fines, traffic stops etc to come to these numbers and they didn’t just place Gardai around the city with a clicker to count every time they saw someone run a red light over a period of time & for that reason I feel those numbers are a farce and hold little if any relevance.

but yeah, riding a bike which I’ve done since I was 7 or so is definitely harder than driving a car. Sure. 😂

I also would like you to not ignore my point regarding the requirement, if we are to assume cycling is a more skilled activity than driving a car; would you not then agree a theory & bicycle type “drivers test” of sorts and a licence should be made mandatory especially if you intend to use your bike on a road or cycle lane, etc?

I get an air of “hate car owners” off everything you’ve said so far, you appear to have little concrete evidence to support your claim and you’re pulling any old shite from the sky in an effort to sound both coherent and an authority on the subject. However you are clearly biased as a bicycle user. Myself however neither drives nor cycles (as mentioned I use an escooter) and while I absolutely in my time have observed gross incompetence among some drivers, I would be stupid, frankly to insist that my mode of transport is of a higher skill barrier than driving a car.

how on earth you can sit there with a straight face and tell me the activity which requires the passing of not only a theory test, practical test & (12?) driving lessons with a qualified instructor and to therefore then be granted a license to drive, which should you fail to do so safely will be revoked for a period or indefinitely requires less skill than the thing kids as young as toddlers are doing (riding a bike) is frankly shocking.

worse than anything else, you’ve not only refused to support the ridiculous notions you’ve made, but you still sit there and try to debate me on this subject using fallacies after I explicitly made clear I will not engage in a debate where the debated party cannot even be honest with themselves, let alone me. As if you think I’m going to sit here and be spoon fed your rubbish while I nod my head and shake my fist at all car users.

might I suggest, perhaps, you spend some time assessing the things you’ve said, appreciate how ludicrous they are and if you want to continue a debate on the subject return to me without talking shite, frankly, otherwise just leave me alone because I’ve better things to do than listen to a scaldy cyclist talk a load of shite.