Gardai & Cycling

Strumms

All,

id be interested to know really what is the attitude of Gardai, Gardai of all ranks to cyclists who are breaking the road traffic laws... specifically going through red lights.

im on the road just 100-120 kilometers weekly and cyclists breaking red lights is an absolute fûcking epidemic in Dublin...city and suburbs...more then ever.

i witnessed an incident at the lights before Clontarf Garda station this week where an elderly lady and her dog attempting to cross the road with a green light were about a foot away from being ploughing into by a cyclist on a red who never even slowed down... he must have been doing about 15-20 kmh and she was visibly shaken for a moment....timing was all that saved them from being hit..

is there actually any proactive enforcement ever done regarding cyclists who are breaking lights ? Are Gardai just focusing on the big bad motorists ? Which yes they should do too of course OR is there any encouragement / appetite to ensure safer roads for everyone... what is the general attitude in the Gardai towards policing of cyclists on our roads...

Chiparus

I would say they concentrate on the perpetrators most likely to kill someone, evidence shows that cyclists and motorists break traffic laws at an equal rate, its motorists that kill people. and if you want bang for your buck and save the most lives - better to target motorists.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063740#Comment_118063740

maybe , however it might get a bit wacky if Gardai in general were only enforcing laws that were targeting situations linked to a probable or possible loss of life...

if somebody vandalized your car tonight, smashed a window , it’s not going to kill you but you’d be a bit put out if you were told on contacting the Gardai that they were not interested in investigating and you should just get it repaired and claim on your insurance....

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063786#Comment_118063786

I don’t believe they investigate accidents unless someone is injured or a lot of damage is caused. That’s what I was told anyway.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063786#Comment_118063786

That is what they effectively do. If you ever have your car vandalised it is unlikely that too much effort will be put into finding the perpetrators.

Equally there is a minuscule number of road traffic injuries related to cyclist misbehaviour and given that road traffic laws are there for safety reasons primarily then it makes sense to focus on those who cause the most damage by their behaviour ie cars.

Even with that there is a very small chance of getting caught misbehaving in a car (speeding, breaking red lights, drunk driving etc.)

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063918#Comment_118063918

The only injury I can recall occurring from a pedestrian and a cyclist colliding, was in phoenix park a few years back. Cyclist was killed when he collided with a pedestrian in the cycle lane.

John_Rambo

Cyclist are actually the best behaved in the capital. According to Transdev, the LUAS people motorists account for more than half of all crashes and emergency braking incidents, pedestrians more than one third and cyclists less than 10 per cent. In 2016 Gardai recorded 24 times more motorists than cyclists breaking red lights. The figures show that 1,296 cars in Dublin were recorded breaking a red light so far in 2016 – 24 times the rate of cyclists caught breaking red lights (54) in the same period.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063971#Comment_118063971

Leaving the Luas out of it for a moment...as that is not a realistic, verifiable barometer of cyclist / car driver behavior citywide...cyclists are by far the worst, there just is zero appetite to do anything about it.

the percentage of cyclists who break red lights in this city at least are way higher then the percentage of motorists who do... it’s rare to see drivers break reds, mistiming them certainly the odd time but cyclists just ride on through red lights deliberately, regularly and systematically...without due care or consequences.

the junction near my place is the perfect example... can’t recall the number of times I’ve seen cars break lights but I observe bikes doing it daily.. lads and girls from the college, people going to and returning from work....

A bike breaking a red and gets hit, it’s the motorists I feel for... nobody deserves to have their day interrupted, vehicle possibly damaged, paint scratched and the associated hassles of getting that fixed and the stresses..as well as dealing with the Guards...

Laws need to be enforced to enable the safety and wellbeing of us all... start penalizing cyclists.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064153#Comment_118064153

Cars don't run red lights regularly? I wouldn't cross the road on a green man in Dublin, the cars don't stop going till the man turns amber, which is a good while after the cars get a red light.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214479/gardai-cycling

Well you were a witness to this, did you call into the station and offer to give a statement?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064281#Comment_118064281

Nope...I didn’t... I wasn’t of the ability to, on occasion of you seeing a car or bike in contravention of the road traffic act, do you ? ;)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064305#Comment_118064305

Well doesn't really apply to me.

So, if you want gardai to prosecute people for running red lights, that they don't observe themselves, you have to be willing to go to court yourself as the only witness.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064319#Comment_118064319

No, see, my reason for posting here was in relation to a curiosity as explained in the OP as to whether there was any real enforcement as relates to cyclists routinely and dangerously breaking reds :)

doesnt apply to you ? Ok :)

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064332#Comment_118064332

I've seen cyclists stopped by gardai for running red lights a doing few timesz but I've never seen a ca pulled over, despite seeing far more cars doing it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064332#Comment_118064332

Well unless you want a Garda member standing at every single traffic.lights in the city, and you're willing to pay the extra tax to put them there, you need to be willing to go to court.

Doesn't apply to me, because I don't need witnesses if I see it myself. 😊

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064344#Comment_118064344

ok, that isn’t believable, you have a nice evening ;)

mrcheez

OP you should also look at pedestrians who cross when the man is red too. Equally as damaging as a cyclist going through a red.

Jail is the only place for pedestrians like that

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214479/gardai-cycling

I wish I could shorten the quote.

Last time I checked Garda issued about 3 fixed cyclist penalty fines a day nationally. I don't know if thats changed in the last year or so.

We didn't really know the stats on accidents with cyclists, they don't keep accurate stats and don't seperate someone falling off their bike on mountain or garden from an accident on road or pavement. We only really know where people died sadly. Thats pretty rare thankfully.

Considering the abysmal standard of driving we can hardly say they are proactive with driving enforcement either.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064386#Comment_118064386

I’d rather be walked into by a pedestrian then cycled into by a cyclist... ;)

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064396#Comment_118064396

I wonder why a question I asked related to cycling and enforcement has turned into cycling vs cars :)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064418#Comment_118064418

Well if you want to enforce a traffic law that you see someone break, you need to be a witness

How do you expect gardai to enforce the law without a witness?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064418#Comment_118064418

It's not vs anything. I haven't compared them. You just have though.

You mentioned both driving and the enforcement of drivers in your opening post, that's what I'm replying to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064401#Comment_118064401

Can't say either thing has happen very much to me. If you're in the habit of colliding with things perhaps time to do things differently. If not then why obsess about it.

Strumms

Where did I say I’m in the habit of colliding with things ? I think you like making stuff up.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064444#Comment_118064444

They enforce a multitude of laws without witness... enforcement doesn’t rely on witnesses.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064401#Comment_118064401

could be a fat lad pedestrian .. they can be killers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064500#Comment_118064500

No they dont. What offences do the gardai prosecute without witnesses?

Pawwed Rig

It is a natural comparison based on relative risk. To answer your question though it is not enforced because the risk is minimal that anyone will be hurt. Road traffic laws are there for safety purposes so prosecuting the potential injured party is not as high a priority as the injuring party. As it should be.

Also the reason why jaywalking (while illegal) is virtually never prosecuted.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064153#Comment_118064153

Leaving the Luas out of it for the moment? They're the barometer with recorded incidents on the ground in the city. You're basically saying "Leaving the actual stats & facts out of it for the moment"

As a pedestrian in Dublin I see a lot more cars breaking lights and breaking other laws than cyclists. As a cyclist in Dublin I see a lot more cars breaking lights and breaking other laws than cyclists. When I'm in the car it seems like cyclists are worse, but they're not. Look at the dash-cam video thread on boards.ie from Irish people driving on Irish roads. 99% of them are of drivers mucking up, very few of cyclists and believe me they love a good "cyclist mucking up" vid... there just isn't that many of them.

In the UK research shows that in car/cycle related crashes (not including kids) 70% of the incidents are the fault of the motorist and they're better motorists than we are so it would be similar here if not more.

Cyclists kill & injure very very few people. That's why the Gardai concentrate on motorists.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063875#Comment_118063875

Sorry but I can’t help myself but point out it’s actually pretty improper to refer to any traffic collision as an “accident” because it implies no one’s to blame. Rarely (if ever) is that the case.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064690#Comment_118064690

Road traffic collision. RTC.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064521#Comment_118064521

where there is evidence...cctv etc. forensics.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064541#Comment_118064541

I’d argue that last point is pretty much nothing shy of a poorly thought out assumption. There are many, many more factors at play that would make more logical sense. Especially because a Garda’s job isn’t to pick and choose when they enforce the law.

however, lets look at a similar (albeit) hypothetical situation to that of the OP.

So a Pedestrian (let’s call him John) is crossing at a Zebra crossing.

A car is approaching and they’re talking on their phone or some shite, either way not paying attention and they narrowly avoid a collision with John. By the grace of God he’s fine & despite being freaked out he was able to catch a quick look at the registration plate and the make/model/colour of the car that just missed him. He couldn’t make out the driver at all however.

now let’s look at that same situation with a cyclist - how do you report this to the Gardai? You’re depending on a few things really, the first of which is that you caught a look at the cyclists face. If not you’d hope someone did. The point being, is all you’d have to go and make a statement to the Gardai is a description of the person and the bike they were using and since bicycles don’t have plates or anything you are hoping that the garda investigating happen upon someone, who looks similar to what you could describe, on a bike that looks similar. You’re somewhat more in luck should there be CCTV to back your story up.

but with a car, you really just need to hope there’s CCTV and/or a witness willing to make a statement also. If you have the reg it makes their job just head and shoulders easier.

so long and short is, I don’t think for one second they ignore cyclists breaking the rules because it’s effort, I would imagine it’s because it’s a tall order to even prosecute them. And that assumes you can find em!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064721#Comment_118064721

Exactly

Evidence.

how many CCTV cameras does you think caught that incident you were a witness to?

There are no forensics to a cyclist going through a red light.

witnesses are evidence. If you saw an offence, off you pop to the Garda station, tell them you are willing to be a witness in court, and make a statement in writing. 😁

if you don't want to do your bit, then don't complain about gardai

magicbastarder

Getting back to the original question, a couple of gardai I know have had the reaction 'do we not have better things to be doing with our time than going after cyclists?'.

To be fair, one of those gardai is a leisure cyclist himself.

magicbastarder

I did enjoy the 'motorists rarely break red lights' comment though. Blindness is a terrible affliction.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064354#Comment_118064354

Are you sure?

https://twitter.com/AlanDub13/status/1451914722522148869

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064354#Comment_118064354

You don't believe the truth? Once at the bridge over the canal at rathmines road, twice on at Stephens green, and loads of times on Kildare street; the guards outside the dail seem to be bored enough to go after the cyclists.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064906#Comment_118064906

I believe what I witness, both driving and as a commuter on public transport ;) which is the truth, a YouTube vid that I can’t really be bother watching doesn’t change facts

However let’s ignore cyclists and just focus on cars eh ;).

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064347#Comment_118064347

It would be self financing for the first few weeks and at that stage you could scale back the presence as there would be more of an expectation of being caught so drivers would stop doing it. Just enforcing ASLs would be like shooting fish in a barrel

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064913#Comment_118064913

If people don't want to talk about cars, perhaps stop mentioning them in almost every post...

If the Garda enforcing the law is a problem for people. Perhaps not breaking the law would make it less an issue for them...

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064153#Comment_118064153

The last RSA speed survey shows 98% of motorists breaking urban speed limits. So tell me again which group is "the worst"?

magicbastarder

i do think that many motorists don't realise how much RLJing is done by motorists; as a cyclist, when i'm waiting at a junction, i'm waiting at the front of the queue and usually have as good a view of the junction as possible. a motorist queuing at a junction is usually not at the front, and would usually be set back and have their view partly concealed by at least one other car.

in dublin now, if a junction does not clear on a green cycle, i would say it's unusual not to see someone in a car running the red. i saw five motorists do it on a single occasion yesterday. to the point where we had to wait at the green for a couple of seconds for them to move clear before we could pull off.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065161#Comment_118065161

cyclists are the worst when it comes to going through red lights which is what we are discussing :) you or anybody else’s..” wawhh bu bu bu but what about motorists ? “ isn’t exactly a learned reply to a topic that was started about cyclists....and many of them who have a complete 100% disregard for the safety of others.

Flinty997

The original question of this thread was wondering do they ever enforce the rules add much as they do drivers.

We know they do issue fines for cyclists from the limited reports they have released. We also know that both law breaking by cyclists and drivers is rampant.

But the op implies they aren't interested in official stats and reports only what they see themselves. So that suggests this is yet another rant. At this point they should just set up letting if stream forum for people who want to rant or maybe that's after hours.

It's amazing the amount of people who complain about gardai 'not doing their job' and yet when it is explained that there needs to be witnesses, then they're not so interested

Strumms

I think flinty I opened a discussion, what you are posting would qualify more as a rant as you seem hell bent on getting emotional and attacking me rather then contributing to either angle of the debate.

cyclists are far more guilty yet as you claim “3 fixed cyclist penalty fines a day” is a stat... I find that odd as you will find 3 cyclists minimum breaking lights just outside my place in an hour... the cycle lane by Clontarf 3 in 10 minutes, one dangerous moron almost ploughing into an elderly lady and her dog as I’ve said.. :) but you know, rant rant blah blahhh... :)

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065763#Comment_118065763

who ( in this thread ) is complaining about Gardai not doing their jobs ? :)

I’m seeking an insight in relation to the policing of cyclists on our roads. :) their resources and ability to etc...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064418#Comment_118064418

Because its Boards. It happens on every thread that raises dangerous or illegal cyclist behaviour. They turn every thread into an attack on motorists because cyclists believe they are never in the wrong, and no laws apply to them. Just look at the thread on cycling on the footpath.

I'm surprised you don't know this by now, Strumms.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065768#Comment_118065768

Do you find it 'odd' that we have 98% of drivers breaking urban speed limits (and just ICYMI, speeding motorists are one of the top three causes of road deaths) and yet enforcement of motorist speeding is at negligible levels?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065808#Comment_118065808

Could you point to any actual example where anyone said the things that you claimed they said please?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065726#Comment_118065726

The Luas red light camera disagrees with you that 'cyclists are the worst when it comes to going through red lights', The camera found that 88% of red light jumping in Dublin was done by motorists. It was catching so many motorists that they had to switch it off, as Gardai couldn't keep up with the reports.

But a more interesting question would be why you would narrow in on that particular offence by that particular road group? You pretend to be concerned about "ensure safer roads for everyone" and yet you focus in on a particular issue that has zero impact on road deaths here and negligible impact on injury rates. Can we take that you're the absolute perfect driver yourself when it comes to sticking rigidly to the speed limit, never having your phone in your hand or on your lap, never having a blown bulb etc?

http://kerrycyclingcampaign.org/but-all-drivers-break-the-lights/

Cyclingtourist

I'm a cyclist and a driver based in Dublin and I see very little enforcement by Gardai regarding breaking lights or cycling/driving on pavements. I break lights occasionally myself while cycling but not in the manner described in the OP. The most common way cars break lights is when the lights go green for straight ahead but are red for left turns through a pedestrian crossing drivers often don't pay attention to the lights but when they see the traffic in the lane to their right start moving they take the turn breaking the light. Often happens that I'm nearly run down by motorists doing this while I'm out walking.

Thelonious Monk

You really do waste too much time fretting over this OP, why exactly does it bother you? Cyclists break lights, no one gets harmed, just accept it.